Yes, You Can Find Love in Recovery

On this episode of the Recovery Vow Podcast, host Eric Kennedy sits down with two very special guests — Zack Straughn and Katherine Straughn — and their story comes full circle in the most beautiful way.

Katherine first joined the podcast in February 2025. Zack followed in May 2025. At the time, they each shared their individual journeys of recovery — stories marked by honesty, growth, and transformation. What no one fully saw coming? They would later find love in each other… and get married.

In this heartfelt conversation, Eric brings them together to talk about what it looks like to build a relationship in recovery. Both Zack and Katherine are in recovery, but their struggles don’t define them — they are defined by resilience, faith, commitment, and love. Their story is a powerful reminder that recovery doesn’t disqualify you from a beautiful future. It doesn’t mean you have to walk alone. Healing and healthy love are possible.

Together, they open up about:

• Finding love while doing the hard work of recovery

• Building trust, vulnerability, and spiritual intimacy

• Navigating relationship dynamics with sobriety at the center

• Why recovery is part of their story — but not the whole story

If you’ve ever wondered whether lasting love is possible after addiction, this episode is for you.

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Website: http://recoveryvow.com
Email: recoveryvow@gmail.com

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• Transcript

  I've got two people next to me making out. And the reason they're [laughter] making out is because they are going to be on the Recovery Valve podcast today. You're going to hear from some good friends of mine, Zach and Cat. Cat came on this podcast February of uh 2025 and then Zach came in May of 2025. And then they got married. [laughter] And I just want you to hear their story. Here's a several reasons I want you to hear their story today. Is because um both are in recovery, but that didn't define who they are. and it doesn't make up who they are, but they are in love and they found each other and people find who they love in their life even in recovery. And I think it's important for you to hear their story today. So sit back and enjoy. [music] I'm so excited about this episode because I've got Zach here and I've got Cat here and we're going to tell we're going to tell your story. I'm not going to tell your story. You're going to tell your story because the listeners, they've seen you come on the podcast last year at two different times. And what's important for people to know is that I don't think it's by coincidence, but just one night I'm on TikTok scrolling and and looking for, you know, potential guests and I find Soberat. And then I get here and come on and sit in another podcast and sit behind Zack and people are like, "You need to meet Zack." I'm like, "Okay." And then you two just become such an influence in my life. You You keep me sober just because of seeing what you do. I mean, and I'm not kidding in that. Like, I I wanted you to come here because I know you've got a story and for you to come back and and share. So, I want to dive right into this episode because this is not about um our addiction past. This is like where we got, you know, you guys were already found, but then you you found each other last year. So, I want I want you in your own words, Kad, if you'll go first. Sure. just tell us what 2025 looked like for you and just kind of, you know, break it down as best you can. I want you to tell us about the book. I want you to tell us about Finding Zach and just how everything come to be and then hearing Zach's point of view, too. Yeah. Um, well, first of all, um, thank you for having us back. Uh, Zach and I were just praying in the parking lot because I was here um, February of last year and um, you know, I'm I've walked with the Lord and known the Lord um, for you know, my whole like sobriety, but you know, I've just had um, es and flows of uh, how close and how obedient I've been to to God. And I'm just I'm a different woman than I was a year ago. Um and so I mean 2025 uh was a huge year for lots of reasons. Um but I um I wrote my first book. Got it. Yeah. Yep. Um come back. Yeah. And um I co-authored another book. Um I got nine uh 10 years sober which was a huge milestone. That's amazing. Congratulations. Yeah, thank you. I mean, um there was there was just so many like so many milestones, but um you know, my entire sobriety and I would say um you know, well into my adult life, I I've just been praying for like the man that God had for me. And I even brought it up with you, you know, I said, "Hey, if you know any good um qualified, you know, Christian men, um I'm I'm open and available." and I um spent a lot of time with other women in the faith and that was like they would always ask for prayer requests and I was like I'm just I'm waiting I'm waiting for my husband you know and um I just always had a vision uh that like the next big step in my life was going to be with me and my husband. And so, um, you know, I the first nine years of my sobriety, I built a pretty successful business, um, opening treatment centers. Um, last year, I kind of stepped out of my, um, comfort zone and and author started authoring books, um, and speaking a lot more. Um, and then you know, uh, it was September of last year that you put Zach and I on a chat thread and you said, "I know it sounds crazy, but in January I want you two to come on a podcast together." Yeah, that was the time I wanted you to meet for the first time. Yeah, we're so technically we're supposed to meet we're supposed to meet for the first time today. Uh, except which is insane to [laughter] me, right? because um that book that I authored has my new last name, which is which is Zach's last name. Um and my last name, Strong, and uh I don't take that lightly. I mean, I I'm I'm honored to to have his last name. Um but, you know, like the Lord has just he moved quick. And um when we met uh on text thread in September, then we met in Augusta. Um, you know, and then we and I wanted y'all to come in early. Yeah. And it's not that I just wanted y'all to meet each other just to see what the opportunity I wanted to hang out with you more. Yeah. Was the one of the biggest things. Plus, you were coming all the way across the country. Yeah. And I didn't know at the time that Zach had just moved from Texas to Florida. So, yeah. Sorry to interrupt you, but it was just it was just opportunity. It was I mean and we both just talked about h like the divine timing and how I almost didn't come to Augusta, you know, and like um I something just said just go and then you know Dette came and that was like even more like well I already brought someone else so I guess I need to go and like Zach almost didn't come and when we finally met and yeah when we finally met in Augusta and it was just like man this is this seems seems amazing. Um, and he seems great. Um, but again, I just was like, he's in Florida. I'm in California. I have no idea how that would work. And then we met again in Florida a few weeks later. And then he was already coming to California to see you. And that's when you got that. Yeah. That's the crazy part is that the trips were already lined up. Yeah. So, it was like after we met, she was already coming [clears throat] to Florida next week. Remember? Mhm. And then it was like 2 weeks after that, we were already going to California. coffee shop. Yeah, it was we were already there. Like the trips were already Yeah, that's insane. So, um I mean, you know, it's just uh I had some I have a lot of like faith-based women who um just really have have helped like pour into me and just help me like keep the hope in the faith because it's been I've been waiting for Zach for a long time. And um they prayed over me in January at our retreat. So this was like a month before I I met you for the first time. And they just said um this is the year. And um they said don't, you know, don't like worry. It's not you that God is preparing, it's him. And I didn't know that Zach wasn't sober yet, you know? So, like when I got those words, I just it kind of gave me relief cuz I was like, "Lord, what else do you want from me?" Like, I feel like I'm checking all the boxes and I'm doing all the things and I'm saying yes to all the things. And you know, sometimes we have to remember like it's not always about us that, you know, and and one of the women um had like this prophetic word and she just said, "It's not you that God's preparing, it's him. He's not ready yet." and Zach hadn't, you know, experienced sobriety yet as of January of last year. And and to be honest with you, I mean, I've heard my pastor say it before. It's like sometimes you're in the waiting room. Yeah. You know what I mean? And and it's either we're going in something, we're in it, or we're coming out of it. And you're right, like he needed you to be stronger in your sobriety so that when Zach came along, no matter the the amount of time he had in his sobriety, he needed somebody strong. He even said that. I remember I read the text last night because you you put it up and I was like, "Let me go reread this." And you know, he it wasn't that he was ashamed of his time in sobriety. He just he wanted to be more like us. And I heard him say that. And what about like us as people, but like us in our sobriety. And so I knew he he had it, right? He he wanted it, you know, and and that really stuck out when you said that. Yeah. Um so yeah. Sorry. So I mean just uh after we met, I mean there's always, you know, um where you just want to make sure that there's room for God, right? like not just saying, "Oh, this is it. I want this to be it." Or just, you know, of course I met him and you know, there we're so alike. Even in that first text I sent, I was like, "Man, [laughter] cuz you thought you on your Instagram." Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, we both love fitness, sobriety, cut from the same cloth. I said, "Cut from the same cloth." Uh, and the same weight bench. [laughter] Yeah. And I mean, we just we had so much in common, but you know, I also like always want to just be obedient to the Lord. Like, okay, is this it? like and you know um it took us some time of just getting to know each other and I mean I you know there's there's just um sometimes when you've been hoping and praying for something for so long you're like I don't I don't know if like I'm scared to say that this is it cuz what if it's not you know and um when was it it like when you went to Florida or when he came to California? I would say when when you came to California and spent that time that was really Yeah. That was really when it that was like when things were like really solidified. Yeah. Cuz it he said that he would move there. That was like the bigger like thing cuz I was like how is this going to work? Cuz I'm very established and rooted in California and me leaving is a little bit more difficult. Um, and so I think that once I found out that he would move to California, it was really, it was set up to be complicated because I had just moved to Florida. So I had just [clears throat] got into a new house. I just moved everything there. Y and so, I mean, if you look at it logistically like that, it was set up to be very difficult. But I mean, I didn't let anything. I was just like, "Yeah, let's do it. I just let's make it happen." Yeah. And then, you know, we got um he he moved we had some other trips and he came back with his dog, Oreo, who is my little Frenchie daughter. Um who literally fits right in with the pack and then it was like, "Okay, this it's go time." Like, we got engaged shortly after that and then um married uh like a month later and that was December 29th. Um, and it it is like all of these things that I wasn't certain about in the future and like moving forward. Um, you know, I was like, am I supposed to, you know, like I knew that I needed to progress and grow professionally, but I just didn't know where. And so I was just like testing things out over here and then testing things out over here. And, you know, it was like when we met it is almost like everything just went into focus. And it's like all of the the static, you know, it's like you you turn in and the radio channel is clear. It's like, no, this is this is where I wanted you to go. And I and now it makes sense why all those other business opportunities, the door just kind of closed on them. Um, and why, you know, it's like for such a time as this. And now, you know, we're really coming together and wanting to um, you know, as crazy as it sounds, work with other couples because we are so passionate about the things that we've done, both the mistakes, but also um, building a strong foundation. And we have coaches that are helping us build a strong foundation, but, you know, teaching men and women not about sobriety, cuz that's, you know, like sobriety is really step zero. sobriety is when you can start doing the work. I think a lot of people think when you get sober that is the work, but it's like no ongoing process. Yeah. We we can't like the Lord God can't use you for your purpose until you're consecrated, right? And you know, purity brings clarity. So, if you're still in that chaotic world of using and and you know, partying [snorts] and then like you're just going to continue bumping into walls. But if you really truly want to be used the way that you're intended to, sobriety, I believe, is step zero. Yeah. And now we can teach people how to really step into who they're really supposed to be once they've kicked all that out of their life. Um, daily habits, discipline, um, community service, and then, um, really taking, you know, territory for the kingdom. I love that because [clears throat] one thing that I wanted to ask you is, you know, we're taught when you go through a 12step program, you know, don't don't get anything that you can't keep alive in the first year. Don't get a plant, don't get an animal, you know, all the things like that. And and some people that that may watch the podcast, they want to hear specifically from you in your point of view because Zach brought up the point like when is it okay to date? It wasn't like he was questioning it because of he hadn't hit that year mark yet, but some people may be intimidated. So, how would you encourage male or female Yeah. when they know it's okay to kind of get back out there, you know, cuz some are going to come from maybe a broken relationship. Some may be scared to get into a new relationship because they haven't found themsel yet. Yeah. Does that make sense? So, if you were going to encourage maybe from uh and you can explain what the queens are in this response. Sure. Um how would you encourage a female that might be listening? This is how you may know when it's right. Yeah. I think that's a really um a really good question and I wish it was so cut and dry. You know, there is like a don't date in your first year and that's really because traditionally what they want you to do is I got married in my first year. I know you did. [laughter] He got well really quick. All right. This [clears throat] doesn't happen for everyone. But but traditionally what they say is, you know, if you're doing a 12step approach um that you're doing a step a month and so you're actually able to spend that first year focused solely on you, right? Cuz you start focusing on, you know, a relationship. I mean, a relationship is a whole entity in itself. Um, but there's lots of people who I believe haven't done any work, haven't done the introspection, haven't you know, gone back and looked at their past relationships or they keep dating the same person who just looks a little bit different because they haven't done the internal work, they shouldn't date for 5 years, right? Um I think that uh when you are okay being alone like I got to a place where I really loved being with me you know I didn't have to be around everyone I didn't have to constantly have like external validation from friends or like that you know I really loved spending time with myself but that took time took a lot of time and even like going on you know movie dates with myself going to dinner with myself, dating myself for um you know, a substantial amount of time. For some people, that could be 6 months, 3 months, a year, whatever it is. But you have to be okay to stand on your own two feet. You know, a lot of people think, "Oh, I can't wait to meet my soulmate because they're going to complete me." And I think that's such garbage. I think that your job is to be complete and a whole as whole of a person as you can be and as healed as you can be to attract somebody who is also whole complete and healed. Doesn't mean that healing isn't going to last forever and that your partner can't help you heal, but if you're waiting for someone to kind of save you or complete you, like you haven't found yourself yet. Yeah. And I don't think it's fair to your partner either, right? Like I think if you want to attract somebody who can stand on their two feet, who's self- sustaining, who's mature, who has done the work, who you know has looked at their past and doesn't want to repeat uh, you know, those mistakes. You have to do the same thing. You can't be this person that, you know, is asking for something but hasn't done themselves. So, um, you know, and I'll let you speak, but Zach spent a lot of time in isolation working on himself. Literally cut off all the chaos, went and did the work, and then, you know, we met. And it's like I don't sometimes like you don't need like if God makes it so apparent, then, you know, so be it. Um, but I also think another another huge thing to this is um getting wise counsel, right? because we can convince ourselves of some really good ideas especially in early sobriety. Right. [laughter] Right. and and you know I the first thing I did was I have a group of women who want the best for me who are like my sisters um other entrepreneurs very successful and I brought them I said this is Zach and they you know looked them up and down just you know had all the questions all the concerns they said let's meet him and you know I I don't make decisions on my own anymore like I have wise counsel and they were after they met Zach and they saw us together and they saw how he treated me and how we were together. They're like, "That is your that's your man." Like, no doubt about it. That's him. And they helped us get married. They helped us plan our wedding. You know, when you're doing things in secret and you don't want to put another set of eyes on it, it's usually an indicator that it's, you know, probably something you're you don't feel that proud of, which means that maybe you're trying to make a decision that you're not ready to make yet, right? What would you have done if they said pause for six months? That's tough. That is tough. I mean, that is tough because you talk about a core group of people that you trust. Yeah. You know what I mean? I think um I mean ultimately no one knows, you know, what's going on in your relationship except you and your person. Um God is the ultimate authority, not my core group of people, right? I would say I mean we would have had to have prayed on it truly. That's a good response. Um but but you know we like we also felt really strongly about it and we just were like God is God is moving like he just consistently told me like we have work to do you know like when marriage is actually not for happiness it's for holiness. And I believe that God has brought us together um because we're better as a team than we are individually. So the fact that, you know, things move so fast, I mean, it's not surprising. Like God's like, "Okay, I need you to go tell the world about me and the things that I'm doing, and I you two are powerhouses, and the two of you together is you're I mean, we we got to go, right?" And I see that because I I still watch both of you, but now it's like a package. Like, you know, before I was just following you before you met each other, and it's like, man, and I was like Zack. I want to be like Zack. I want to be like Cat. Like, you have this influence and following. The dude's just cut, you know? I'm like, I wish I could go in the gym every day and be like that, you know? But it was also just you guys, you you have this this um you ever seen the movie The Secret? It's a documentary. It's about laws of attraction. And it's not about looks. It's about you expect these things to happen and they start to really happen. If you haven't watched that, I encourage you to go watch it because it's the way that you start talking to yourself when you become confident in who you are. And so I watch that about once a year every every year. Just rewatch it. Um because it just reminds me because I am sometimes still scared to be alone. Like I don't I don't mind traveling, but by the week or after the first week, maybe the few first few days, I'm I'm ready to be around people or not ready to be in that hotel room. It's It's not like um it's a trigger. It's just it's a it's a feeling in there. Um Zach, I got to pitch it your way. Was 2025 the year you thought it would be? [laughter] Can you outpace what Cat just said? Cuz we met here. Let me tell you. Yeah. Tell me. Um 2025. Honestly, it's the last what has it been? 8 months I would say since the last time I was here has been even back it up a little bit. So, um, like I definitely believe, you know, and I would say we both do, like, you know, when God's trying to do something, he sends you people typically. Mhm. Um, and there was somebody that was sent to me during like a rough time. And I think that person was sent when looking back on it. I think they were sent into my life at the right time for us to just get just close enough to where whenever I decided enough was enough and I wanted to go isolate and get sober, that guy happened to live here. I don't think that was an accident. I've never wanted to live in Dallas. I grew up in North Houston, but I never wanted to move up here. I never thought I would, let alone California. I never thought I'd move to California, but so um but I truly think when I reflect on it, I think that person was sent there for a brief time so that whenever I needed somewhere to go stay and try to change and I went to go live on his couch, I think he was here. [snorts] um ultimately leading to a couple months later me getting sober in March and then me coming on to Brent's podcast here and then you happened to just be there listening um and then coming here. The funny thing is is I mean I was barely sober last time I was here. I didn't even know Jesus last time I was here. And I think that's the craziest part is that um I didn't know anything. I just was freshly sober, barely like not even two months, maybe 3 months and just up here and I was just like ready to put the work in. I just had this weird um I had of when I reflect on it now, I had a lot of convicting pulls that I didn't know how to explain. Obviously, now I know what they are. Um but I just had become in this alignment where I was like whenever I get these like weird intuitions or these pulls, I'm just going to do it. And I just became this like very decisive person because I really wasn't that decisive before in my addiction. Um unless I was deciding to do something bad to go get high or something. But um and I was like I'm just going to follow it because it was so overwhelming and I'm usually like a not necessarily statistics but like I have to have a backed up like reason of like why I'm deciding to go do something. Um and these things were never explained. I never had a reason to just you know go to Dallas, you need to go there or you know go to this podcast with Brent. I didn't know why. I didn't even really want to do it. You remember how you got asked to do that? Somebody had asked me to go on it and it was just like it was talking about um dating. But the thing was is I wasn't even like dating because I was so invested in just I'm going to isolate and I'm going to do my thing and I'm going to be sober and I'm just really going to work on myself and I'm going to head down in the gym. And that started developing into just other avenues of personal development. But some it was the same conviction. It was like but yeah, but you got to go on it. And it was just like telling me like you got to go on it. And I was like dude I'm not even dating. Why would I go on a dating podcast? That doesn't make sense. Cuz we were talking about dating in Dallas. I lived in Dallas for maybe 4 months. Wasn't dating. [snorts] And I was just like, "Okay, this is odd, but sure, I'll do it." And like now we see why. Um, but yeah, and I was just in this state of that entire year, like when I, you know, met you one, I didn't know Jesus. I was barely sober. And I was just really head down, like just doing the work day in and day out. like um I was naturally just cutting off people that I just think didn't serve me um for whatever reason it was like if they weren't going in the path I was trying to go like I just wasn't here for it. I was like you know [snorts] that's just good discernment too. Yeah. Like but it was just this overwhelming amount of it to where it's like I didn't really know where it was coming from. It was like I just like flipped a switch and like all of a sudden I was like okay I've been obeying this like weird kind of voice that's happening and um you know I'm just going to keep going with it. hasn't like done me wrong yet. Um, and so fast forward, it keeps going. And then, um, I ended up moving to Tampa because I was kind of just over living here. I didn't necessarily like Dallas that much. Um, and it kind of ran its course and I was like, "All right, well, I don't know. I think maybe I just came here to isolate cuz I didn't really know anybody. Now I've done the work. I'm starting to get better and now I was trying to like move forward." Um, so I was like, randomly just got a thing like, "Hey, let's just move to Tampa." So, I go to Tampa and um the funny thing is it's like a complete opposite story because I was in such a spot where I was like, I'm not dating anybody for a long time. I'm not doing this. Like, I am me. I'm working. I'm going to start a business. I'm going to do this and I'm just going to for once in my life like work on me 100%. And I thought it was going to be for like years to come. Like I was like, dude, this is, you know, I'm 28. I'm about to sit here. I mean, I'm probably not going to date and, you know, even think about that till I'm like 35. I was in this whole head space. just moved at 35, you know, so much you learn. And I was just like, that's what I'm doing like no matter what. And so it was like, yeah, I'd maybe went on like dates here and there or I like kind of done is like, hey, you haven't been social in a while. You should probably go do this and not just completely isolate yourself. Um, and I would do it, but it was a very quick like, "All right, cool. Check the box like, you know, on to the next back to work." Um, and then whenever you had introduced us and told us like, "Hey, I want you guys to meet." Same kind of thing. thing I had an overwhelming feeling where I was looking I was like, "Oh, damn." I was like, "This girl's like super alike." And I was I had made a promise to myself that like as much as I was like head deep into my work and focus like I like to stay open to that to that goes back to that sign that thing that was like, "Hey, when you get this weird feeling about something just you need to go with it." I want you to tell that story, too. And so, um, basically I was like, "Okay." And then, you know, we were in the chat thread. We started texting. Um, y'all quickly threw me off the thread, too. I [laughter] went the wrong way. The thread went dead pretty fast and I was just cooking. Yeah. And [laughter] then I wasn't in the kitchen anymore. I know. And um and then even our like texting, it was like a little spotty, you know, after a few weeks. And then um because I was really, if I'm being honest, like I was really I don't like to I didn't want to over text or text too much and just be like I felt like all right, this can only hold on if I really like this. It can only hold on for so long cuz it's like we're not I don't know if we're meeting a month from now in January. I mean, it's just like you don't want to just throw everything out there kind of a thing. Like I was like, "All right." So, um was kind of cutting it back a bit. And then we were supposed to go to the the donor lunch, which same thing. I just was I was like, I don't really know if I want to go. I had a lot like going on at the time, but then I was like, I need to support you. But again, I had that thing like, hey, you need to go. And so, I was like, all right. Once I heard that, I was like, all right, this this voice, I mean, it's back. And again, at this point, I still didn't know Jesus. That's what that's what the crazy part is. Um, and are you talking about the story of what happened on the way up there? Yeah, I want you to tell the story about the trip. Yeah. So, I was going up there, um, and with a buddy of mine and we were on the drive up and this was at like a very early point, um, when we were creating like the men's group and leadership thing that I do. And so whenever we were like early on, we had a big like investment to make that was like for us like a lot of money at the time and we were like, "Hey, like I don't know what to do about this." Um, and my buddy that I was going with, like he wasn't very, but he recently had just started like telling me like, "Hey, I started praying with my girlfriend recently." And him too, he's like never really like that's never been his thing, like whatever. Um, and so we're going and we're on this drive to Augusta. And for everybody that doesn't know, the drive from Tampa to Augusta, there's nothing. Basically, it's just like trees, pine trees. Yeah, it's literally just trees. There's nothing out there. You might, you know, pass a a cross thing with a gas station every now and then. Um there's really nothing out there. There's a bunch of like farms and stuff. And so I want to say it was like a 8 hour drive, 9 hour drive. And we um were driving and we'd probably been four or five hours deep into the drive. And it was in the middle of the night, too. It was probably like [sighs] I think at this point it was like maybe like midnight and we still had like 3 or 4 hours to go. Um and we just kept talking about it all day from that morning from like 10:00 a.m. we were like what damn like what do we do? Like what do we do on this decision? And um he was like you know what? I'm just going to pray about it. But he had been talking about that all day. He's like I think I'm just going to pray about it. I'm going to pray about it. But for some reason at this moment you know 10 hours later on the drive 12 hours later he's like I'm just going to pray about it now. Cuz he kept telling me too. He's like I'm going to wait till we get to the house. I'm wait till we get to the house. All of a sudden, he prayed about it and I was like, "So, like kind of like how'd it go?" He's like, "God's telling me to tell you to pray about it." And I was like, "Me?" I was like, "I don't know if I've ever prayed a day in my life. Like, what are we talking about?" kind of a thing. Um, and the weirdest thing, it was that voice again. It was just like, "Just do it." And I didn't even know if I had ever been asked to pray like as a kid or just like in that situation. It was a very like, "Oh, I'm not experiencing this. I don't know what to say. I don't think I should do it cuz I don't know where to get the words from." And when I I'm not kidding you, I'd spit out probably a three-minute prayer without a stutter, without anything. Words that I don't even know where they came from. Basically saying like, you know, show me a sign. Like, if this is the decision that we're supposed to make, show me a sign. And not even 2 minutes later on this drive where there's nothing there, there's this huge lit up cross. And it's just like, if that's not a sign, I don't know what it is. But the even crazier part about that story is is that a minute before that, we crossed a billboard, which I don't know why there's billboards in the middle of nowhere where no one's driving. That doesn't make sense to me. And it said verbatim, I want somebody, we need to go on this drive so I can show you the billboard. And it says, um, are you ready to meet Jesus? And I was like, the next thing is you saw and then the next minute after is when I saw that cross. And I was like, okay, well, I can't deny it. Like Jesus is real. Done. Like, I'm in. [laughter] Like, you know what I mean? Um, that's incredible. I mean, let's just pause on that for a second. I mean, that's more than just a story. That's like part of your testimony majorly. You know what I mean? Because I mean, and I've been we were at dinner, you know what I mean? Like, we were at dinner and all this was happening like you were on the way. I was hoping you would get there a little earlier that day cuz you could have joined us, but I mean the the thing that was you needed to be I'm glad you didn't get there early because it was all because of the daylight. you wouldn't maybe would have saw it, you know, glad that it worked out that way. It was all cuz we were bringing a videographer or Dan that we were bringing and it was because he had a day job and he couldn't leave until that point which same thing that person I mean we had talked like after that maybe talked to him for a week. I'm telling you when he sends he sends people and they were there for specific reasons to do specific things. That's what's so crazy about the reflection of it. Mhm. Um and then Yeah. And then we get there and I mean the next day we met I mean we just kind of hit it off like right away. You know what I mean? Yeah. Cuz I mean we played the front nine together. Mhm. And then y'all got on your own card and it was turn Well, she was going to leave and I was like, "Hey, I think you should stay [laughter] cuz you know we hadn't got a chance to talk. We were going to leave. That's right. You you were going to go shopping with Kristen." And I'm like, dette. And I didn't really want to cuz I love to play golf. But he seemed so disinterested. And I was like, all right. I mean, I'm not This obviously is not a thing. So, I'm just going to let him be with the boys and, you know, just go on my way. And like Dette was kind of over golfing. She had never really golfed. And then he said, I think you should stay. And that changed everything. Yeah. I'm glad you did. Um, but yeah, once again, this is the thing that I reflect on is I don't think that decision or like the like I don't think any of that had to do with the business decision. Like I don't think any of that cuz like all of that like panned out the way it did and like it's you know as good or as bad or however it went is just completely irrelevant because I think the whole point was is because like let me ask an honest question like if I hadn't found Jesus 12 hours before I met you like do you think this would even be a thing if I came to you? Because I I've told her I was like I genuinely think if that didn't happen I would have came to you and if you tried to tell me about Jesus I would have been like ah it's not my thing like I'm good. I remember at the lunch you you came up to me um I don't remember what at what point it was. I I remember it was probably after we we'd kind of done the the the appreciation speeches and all that kind of stuff. And and you told me that and you're like I prayed for the first time last night. It was like you had to you had to hurry up and not hurry up and share it but you had to share it. Like you wanted me to hear it. I was like still processing it cuz I was like I don't know how that means. Yeah. But I could tell like we got to spend some time together uh the next day and we went to eat lunch and and then we went and had coffee and I could just uh see then that you were you were processing you're a very quiet uh intimidating guy just like your presence anyway. Um if people don't know you, you know what I mean? But I could just see like your wheels were turning and it was more than just um what had just happened at a donor launch. was God was changing your life and you were starting to see discernment and you were starting to have a relationship with God as you understand him and that was the and you know you know it now but that was the Holy Spirit talking to you the whole time it was Jesus having a conversation with you and and I don't want that to freak people out like when you hear their their story it's not like um this isn't supposed to intimidate or scare you but when when the time is right um you need to have a a relationship with higher powers you understand them and it comes at different times Yeah, I wasn't when I was invited to church. Um I think I was in my going into my second year. I was a year and a half sober and um and I put up these these walls that I didn't want certain I didn't want you to um be really religious or Jesus me. I mean just let me let me just walk my my own relationship. And and I got that opportunity too and I think you did. And um well think about this. Isn't this what's crazy is that you know the woman that you talk about that was speaking to you when she says he's not ready yet. That's what was happening the whole time up until we met. I mean I had all those things going on was barely sober. Hadn't met Jes like I was literally doing the whole year was like I mean she was right. I was like I wasn't ready at all. Had you met me you know when you wanted to meet me let's say 8 months before it would have been a disaster. You know you were just getting stronger in your recovery. Right. Stronger in your recovery. And then I got to go to California and appreciate your wedding. Yeah, thank you. I mean, I know I told you, but I want to say it so the whole world hears it. Thank you so much for allowing me to be a part of that day. It was very special. Thread cuz I'm pretty sure you said in the beginning thread when he said he was like, "Name your first child, Eric, or let me do your wedding." Yeah, [laughter] it was. Yeah, I think you said it was like, "Hey, when you all get married, all I ask is that I officiate the wedding." Right. And I got to Yeah, it was incredible. We didn't give you much notice. I don't care. But I I'd leave here and go do it if you were doing it today. Um, I just I just want to be a part of that story because this is going to change people's lives. You're going to change people's lives because of your story, because of your testimony, because of the work you're going to be doing together. Yeah. So, I want to shift because you told us about 2025. You got to tell the story. What is the plan going forward? What do you guys hope to accomplish together now that you know, Kat, you were doing this for almost a decade on your own. Zach, you were getting started with what you were building and then your world's collided. How is 2026 shaping up to look for y'all? Or what do you plan but uh want God to do? Can you share or is it top secret? So, no, it's not top secret. Um it's funny that you asked that because we actually just we spent the beginning of this month um basically putting ourselves in a state of like, hey, we're listening. Like, where do you want us to go? That's been a big thing that like um we're always saying is I I always and I make sure that like we are always trying to like stay in a state where it's like you can hear like things are clear. I want to make sure like you know we can always hear like if there's a message that pops in and we need to move because that's where we're at is we're like we're ready to go. We're ready to move. And so when we came together it was like all right now where do we go? It was like we were standing there like all right cool we're ready but like where do we go? Um, and so, you know, we tried kind of moving here, moving there, but it's just if it didn't feel like completely aligned, we're like, let's back it up. So, we spent the beginning of this month being like, all right, let's just sit and let's, you know, pray into it and like, where do we go? Where do we go? Um, so we actually just wrapped up a fast on Tuesday. What did y'all do? A a water fast or three day fast. So, we had just water um that Sunday to Tuesday. It's It was tough, but I can tell you it was a my mind was clear by the end of day. Oh man, did we get answers. Yeah, it was Did we get answers? Yeah. Um and it was just cuz I mean we were talking about what was it the three it was like um giving, praying, and fasting. And it was like fasting. That's another thing. I was never openminded to fasting especially coming from like bodybuilding and stuff. You're like you want me to starve myself for 3 days? Like I'm not on a prep going to do a show like Yeah. Like what are we talking about? Y crazy people. And I'm thinking I'm like I get ir irritable and like turn into a princess if I haven't eaten in like six hours. So it's like I was like how you expect me to last you know that long? Um but what do you know? I've never I mean I don't think I like yeah I was hungry but like my stomach didn't rumble but maybe one time. Like I was very like I've got maybe a few headaches but it was just um we came to find out how much time in the day we actually were spending around food. you know, planning around food, just like thinking about it. And so it was like in those days we were like, we have so much free time. And so we just spend it all like reading in scripture. Um just, you know, just anything we could to just receive the message. And so, um, we're just getting messages, you know, we, you know, obviously it's very important like to us to she wants to lead women, I want to lead men. But also just I think the message that we've been receiving is um just putting God at the center of, you know, marriages, relationships, and just restoring that whole dynamic of like we think that that's where a lot of the household goes wrong is, you know, living for the world and not for him. You know what I mean? And so it's are y'all trying to work with couples that are specifically in recovery or broad? No, I would say broad. Like I think we're shifting more from a piece of like we want to, you know, sobriety soiety into like, hey, this is a big part of our story and where we came from, but like this is where God has called us to move into. Um, and the thing was is one of the big pieces of it is like, well, if we're going to step into couples, like how are we going to help couples if like, you know, some people are 20 years married, like we don't have that, you know, technically the time frame. Um, and so he spoke to us and he said, "But what if you started at the beginning like look at the foundation that you guys," because we've been in this, we've been hearing this word foundation, foundation, foundation. Um, from the mentors we have, just everybody like, "Hey, it's all about the foundation." Like make sure you spend time in the foundation. So that way, um, cuz one of our mentors, Noah, says if you're even an inch off of the foundation, you're launching like a rocket ship. I mean, you're thousands of miles off whenever you get up there. Yeah. Um, and so we think that that's what he had, you know, we know that that's what he had spoken to us is like, why don't we help couples build that foundation? You know what I mean? It's not so that way it, you know, they're shooting off longer. They have God at the center. You know, teaching them how to be best friends and entangle their lives together and, you know, um, a big thing that has been like communication, I would say, is like a really really big thing that a lot of people miss on. Um, and just no matter what, like we are very well, we wear we're wear our emotions on our face, so it's like kind of hard to hide if something's wrong or not. But, um, I would definitely say like open communication is like a big thing that, you know, we're trying to get across is like, um, that is a very, very important thing. And so, it's like we're making sure that no matter what it is, like we're just always on the same page. We're always honest. We're always, you know, talking like, "Hey, this is how I feel right now about this or whatever." Um, and not like just lowering your pride and being like, you know, cuz there's so much of the world today is like overthinking and thinking like, oh well, I don't want to say this because of this or what if this person thinks this or whatever or even like your own spouse, you're thinking like, you know, especially like for men, it's like, I don't want to show a sign of weakness and be open about this subject or whatever. And so, it's like ultimately you're destroying or like separating because it's like y'all need to be united and on the same front. You're absolutely right. I mean, I'll be praying for you guys in your direction. I I think you have opportunity. That's why I was asking if you're just doing just uh sobriety or not. I think you have an opportunity to reach people right where they are. Yeah. You know, and like you said, just start at the bottom. Here at the uh at at EXO, they offer training for you to become um marriage intensive uh leaders or I think they call them mediators and it uh it's a crash course. I think it's like three days they do it here and they put you through this training and they give you a certificate and it teaches you how to walk with couples and mediate. Uh, a lot of times mediators will um help mediate a divorce, but this is to help mediate back um being together. Yeah. And so you could incorporate, you know, these trainings and things like that as you as you're building this stuff out and whether it's curriculum or or uh using, you know, a book that you that you have. Um I'll be praying for for um your guidance in that. But I do want to shift gears and talk about the comeback blueprint. This is uh I just I I ordered my copy. I hadn't gotten it in the mail from Amazon yet. So, I appreciate you bringing this, but I was thumbming through it just a minute ago and the first chapter I landed on was um the gift of an Eskimo. Now, I told you that I lived in Ketchacan, Alaska, [laughter] and I did. I lived in Anchorage for a little bit in Ketchacan and I thought for sure you were talking about um some of those folks I used to hang out with. [clears throat] No, but you're not. No. So, tell us a little bit [laughter] about I'm being serious. I lived in Ketchacan. Yeah. And there were Eskimos there and I loved them. [laughter] I want you to tell me like what are you what was your main point for writing this book and what do you hope uh for people to get from it? Yeah. Um well the to be totally transparent I did not want to write a book. Um, this is the importance of surrounding yourself with a community of people that that see the greatness in you before you do, right? Because, um, I just thought, what do I really have to offer type of like imposttor syndrome? Um, but also it's a lot of work and I was like, I own multiple businesses. I have, you know, speaking engagements and I like am whatever. It just wasn't a priority. Um, but you know, I started hanging around women who start talking about your legacy and what happens after you leave. And you know, as as much like fun as I have hanging out with my clients at the treatment facilities and taking them to go hang out with horses, like is that really leaving a legacy? Right? So, they pushed me um and inspired me to write this book and it's 97 pages. So, I wanted it to be a quick read um because I personally hate wasting my time with like like I just I want it to be like an hour, two hours done, but it's essentially um my life. So, an autobiography of, you know, broken down into 12 chapters and 12 lessons. It just happens to be 12. Um I didn't I know I know uh 12 steps, 12 disciples. I who's saying but uh at the end of each chapter is a act it own it and face it because I wanted it to be applicable right and so there are essentially lessons that I learned in those stages of my life but the goal is that somebody would be able to take those questions and really either get back on track to whatever it is that you want to if if maybe you got off of track from like the goals and dreams that you once had. Maybe you're struggling with addiction and you don't really know a way out. But, you know, my goal is that someone would read that book and see, wow, like she's just a normal girl like everyone else. Um, that she, you know, struggled and that I took action and, you know, have this incredible life that I can't wait to wake up to. Um, and there are some practical, you know, things that I do that I include in that book. And then even having some questions on, you know, asking people about their habits. What is something that maybe you're doing that's um holding you back? Is there a group of people or a person that is um preventing you from becoming your best self? Um maybe there are dreams that you once had. I believe that when we have like a a a vision of our future or maybe you just like I don't know why, but I've always wanted to work with kids or whatnot. I believe that God plants that seed in our heart because it's something that he has already predestined for us and that it's our job to seek that out. Like if you have something that just keeps coming up in your heart, maybe it's you know um working with the elderly or um you know the the homeless or or there's something that you know just this intertwining theme that keeps coming up. I believe that's from God that he's planting a seed and it's our job to uncover that. And the weird thing about purpose, I I mean really our purpose is to be aligned with God and to and to make more people um come to Jesus. I mean at the end of the day, our job is to make disciples. Um but really it's to love people and to show them that the the mountains that we've climbed how they can climb it, right? So my goal in in producing that book, one is that it was out of obedience. Yeah. God God told me, you know, that this needs to be done. And you got a written word now. Like when you talk about legacy the same I had the same thing like when the coolest part was that um Zach and I got married right before it went into production. And so I was able to put my new last name so it says Katherine Strong because I do believe that um you know Zach and I are meant to build a legacy here together that we're meant to take territory and that that would have had an entirely different meaning to me had it you know had a different last name on it. No, you're probably right. Um now this can be used by male or female or male or no male or female. um you know and there are questions at the end of each chapter um ideally to help you find you know your purpose and to to become more aligned and so that you can build a life that you no longer want to escape. I love it and and I love that it's it's not intimidating like it's not supposed to be a novel, right? Because um this came to me during 21 days of prayer. Uh, recovery is experienced, not educated. And so we can't we can't write thick books to get people to understand this. You know what I mean? It can it can be workbooks, you know, and and and just helping them have the tools. They're the mechanics. You're the mechanics, but these are the tools. It's also really hard to like metabolize, you know, like what you're getting out of those super long novels like this. It's like you can sit in it, you know, go back to you can sit there and metabolize it. That's like a big thing we've been learning recently is just like there's one thing to read through something but then to like really sit there, go back, metabolize it, spend a week on it, you know, the stuff that you're learning and like really digest it. Yeah. Has been super important. Yeah. And like another thing I want to say is that you do not have to be in recovery to get the benefits of that book. That's a good point. Thank you for saying that. I I think that um I talk a lot about, you know, just loneliness, depression, um self-sabotage, you know, falling away from God, wandering in the desert for a long time trying to figure out who am I and and like how do I find out what I'm supposed to do here? And you know, ultimately, I mean, this is how beautiful like God is is that Zach and I had just met. I had been writing this book for the past um like 6 months in 2025. It was about to go into production and I meet Zach and I'm like, "Hold on a second. I got to make some tweaks to this thing." And then we get engaged and I was like, "I wait, we got to stop. I I need to add some things to this." So, I got to write a new chapter. Yeah, I know. I know. I mean, and it just took on a whole different meaning. And um you know, the last chapter is um I do get to like add a conclusion. And um you know the the back of the book says that you know we're married and we live in California with our five dogs and you know it's just that's so sweet. It's it's like so amazing. I it's I I don't want to say that I doubted God's timing, but you know um last last February on Valentine's Day like um after I got that word from the woman in my um in my entrepreneur group, we we did a retreat and they just kept saying like be faithful, keep praying, pray for your future husband every single day, write him letters. And I wrote him a letter last Valentine's Day and I said, "I'm I know you're coming this year." And I Yeah, I have it still. I've read it to him. I was excited. Did you give it to him? And I said, "Um, I know you're coming this year. I cannot wait to meet you. Um I You're a prophecy." And I And I said, "I know that this is my last Valentine's Day alone, and next Valentine's Day, I'm going to be with you." And here you are. Yeah. Yeah. Ironically, I have a women's retreat that day, but we're gonna make [laughter] we are going to make something happen. Trust me, I am not not gonna be without him. So, this is why I wanted you to be here. Yeah. And it was I wanted you to be here in January because I wanted you to tell your story. But at the time, it was individuals and now it's as a couple. And that's that's incredible. It's just incredible. Well, and we want to thank you for your obedience. I mean, you listened to God and you like, you know, planted the seeds and um just just the fact that, you know, you could have easily just said, "Oh, no, that's, you know, they're too far apart or whatnot." But like I mean, like you listen to the Holy Spirit and I mean just how amazing it's been to have you and Kristen just be intertwined in this, right? Be there when we first met. You got to baptize Zack. Oh my gosh, we need to tell that story. Oh, like I mean Yeah. I mean I got to go to California. We can tell it real quick. Um what was I there for? For the mastermind. The mastermind, [laughter] right? Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Was it? Yes. Yeah. I think so. I think so. Wait. No. No. It was because Hold on. Unless you flew out there cuz you I flew out there. You and Kristen, you put us in Dana Point and I spoke at your house and then I spoke at your something. I could have swore that. I don't know. Anyway, we were in California. Cold. It was cold. And Zach got baptized. Yeah. Thank you for letting me be a part of your life. I mean, those are key. Your baptism. I know you married us, baptized me, introduced us, introduced you. So, I mean, I guess you do kind of need to know. It's either gonna be Eric or Erica when y'all start having babies. [laughter] So, hey, I I do want to just uh as we land the plane just say again, thank you so much for coming back here to be on this podcast. Thank you so much for being an example and a testimony, but I'm so proud of both of you for the work that you're doing and anywhere I can be of service to you. Thank you for being supporters and donors of Recovery Vow as a nonprofit. Thank you for uh loving me and and loving each other and just and just getting out of the way and just letting God move. I just I think it's just incredible. I can't say it enough. Thank you. Praise Jesus.