Who Are You Surrounding Yourself With? Choosing People to Shape Your Recovery | Recovery Vow Podcast

In this episode of The Recovery Vow Podcast, Eric sits down with his friends Sam and Corbin from Augusta, Georgia, fellow members of his early-morning small group. Together, they dive into Chapter 4 of Marriage After Addiction: “The Right Game on the Right Playground”.

The conversation explores how the people we surround ourselves with, our “playgrounds, playmates, and play habits” shape our recovery journey, our marriages, and our walk with God. Corbin shares his powerful story of hitting rock bottom and finding freedom from alcohol, while Sam opens up about the challenges of sexual addiction and the importance of accountability in marriage.

From the role of small groups and authentic brotherhood to the balance of “healthy selfishness” in sobriety, this candid discussion highlights the hope and healing that come from honest community and faith. Whether you’re navigating substance addiction, process addiction, or supporting a spouse in recovery, you’ll find encouragement and wisdom here.

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• Transcript

  [Music] On today's episode, I sit with some friends of mine from Augusta, Georgia, Sam and Corbin. Now, these guys are in my small group and we meet every Monday at like 4:30 in the morning. They're crazy, but um because of that small group, we have that connection and I believe in that connection. It's one of the chapters in the book, Marriage After Addiction. We talk about playground, playmates, and play habits and just how that shapes who we are. It helps us become better husbands and better spouses and better friends. And so, um, on today's episode, you'll hear us talk about that and the importance in that, but also how we've struggled with process addiction and substance addiction. So, if you haven't already subscribed to Recovery Val on YouTube, you can do so. Watch this episode and all of our previous episodes. You can also follow us on social media, and you can also stream us on any of your favorite platform. But just enjoy today's episode with Sam and Corbin. Welcome to the Recovery V podcast. I'm your host, Eric Kennedy. Um, on today's episode, I'm going to be um digging into marriage after addiction. This is my book and it's hard. I'm just going to be honest with you. It is hard to do self- promotion or anything that I've done or work going. So, I hate this. I'm just being honest and transparent, but my producer tells me I've got to do it. So, we're going to do it together. All right. So, Marriage After Addiction is a workbook that I wrote for couples specifically for the supporting spouse of someone who's dealt with addiction now because you're both in recovery. But today I'm gonna uh sit with some friends of mine from Augusta, Georgia, uh Sam and Corbin. And uh they have a podcast. Um but I thought it would be um important to talk about chapter 4, which is the right game on the right playground. Pretty much what that means is your playground, your playmates, and your play habits. So we are in a small group together. And um when I was out there uh doing my thing, uh the people that I surrounded myself with kind of defined the choices that I made. Uh it's not their fault. I'm I made the choice, but those people aren't in my circle now. And so I really believe in the power of who you surround yourself with and the impact that that makes and why that matters. So we're going to we're going to dive right in. Um, we're just going to have a conversation, not an interview, because these these are friends of mine. Uh, we meet every Monday morning. Uh, I don't know why I agreed to do this uh uh small group with them. They like meeting at Chick-fil-A at like 4:00 a.m. So, we're there cooking chicken and making coffee, but we meet at the Chick-fil-A. Oh, I know what I want to do. Uh, Corbin and Sam, I want to I want to ask one of the questions from from uh chapter 4. At the end of every chapter for couples that go through this together, there's a set of questions that they would answer uh from the supporting spouse's point of view and then there's questions that you know I would answer as a person in recovery and then there's a set of questions that uh are couples discussion questions they would kind of answer together. So when people order this book or buy this book, make sure that you get two copies, one for the uh person that's in recovery um and then the person that's the supporting spouse. So, um, I'm going to open by reading this question to Corbin first. You're going to blindside me. Yeah. Yep. So, just hold on and, uh, let Sam kind of speak into it because the world knows that you and I are in recovery, but Sam isn't. So, he's friends of ours. You need to make it clear to the audience that we're not the couple. Oh, God. Yeah. Please understand that we didn't bring in two chair. We're just up the couch here because these guys are married and have children. We are not that kind of podcast, but we love you. The eyes are that we're not married to each other audience. We're married to our own. I was waiting for But no, I mean, I don't know. I was going to just let it ride till the end of the conversation and just be like, "Oh, the way they're like, huh, this is interesting. This is new. Where are these guys from?" That's Augusta, Georgia. Okay. Um, all right. I want to read. Let's see. Let's see. Question five is read like this. Who are the people that uh who encourage growth versus endanger progress? How much access are we giving to both of the groups? So, Corbin, when you hear that, you you know that the same people that we surrounded oursel with in our past aren't the same today. So when I say who are the people who encourage growth versus endanger progress, what does that speak to you if you were answering that question with your spouse? If I was answering this with my spouse and um my spouse's name is Katie. She was on an episode last summer July, I want to say. I don't even What was the name of the episode? I don't remember. But you can go back on our YouTube channel and subscribe and watch that episode. Yeah, I was going to say we need to promote it. Uh, I would say, you know, if I look and you mentioned just play habits and playmates, the old friends that I had and like you said, very very well said, I made the choices. They I mean, it's nobody else's fault, Pabone. Um, but certainly the influences around you mattered. And if I had to think about the people that were hindering my growth, it seemed like it was a natural um what's the word? It just was a growing phase of life. Once I stopped drinking, it was almost like the Lord was cutting um showing me the the right route to go and the right people were brought into my path. you for instance uh Sam through this uh small group um the right people will come into your path at the right moment if you walk in obedience with the Lord and it's scary uh it's kind of like Peter stepping out in water you know you've got all this going around you got a lot of shame and guilt and worry and fear uh I didn't know who Corbin was going to be and uh but I stepped out of that boat and stepped onto the water and I had my eyes focused on uh I didn't know at the time him but uh he was in the distance in the fog and um over the course of time those relationships and those play habits and playmates just started being cut off and it's hard to in the moment it's so hard I mean you know that's your identity and those your circle um but now looking back I can see that those relationships were holding me back maybe from being the Corbin I was called to be and the Corbin I'm I'm supposed to be. Um and so now the Lord has really surrounded me with the right influences to bring out the best version of me that's been hidden. Uh, so can I ask you, um, thinking about, you know, your your past, you don't have to tell your whole story, but tell us, um, I know the story, but tell us what rock bottom was for Corbin before you made the decision to change everything before you got to the person in Playground Playmates. Uh, and do we want the condensed version of this? Yeah. Yeah, we can just do condensed like the the moment. What was the day that you realized this rock bottom is my last moment of clarity? I need to do something different. Yeah. Fork in the road moment was my wife found the vodka cup in the laundry room and I finally saw myself in a mirror clearly uh that I was living in a secret uh hiding something that I knew in my heart every swig I would take every night. like it was as if the Holy Spirit was speaking to me like stop this isn't you man in a loving way it was it was just a nudge and when she found the vodka cup and you know it led to questions and I knew I knew deep down that wasn't me uh and it was the moment for me of like you're you're going to you're either going to continue down the path that you were taught with your with your family and your dad and my dad passed away when he was about 55 five uh or you can make a difference. You can make a change. You can break this. And it was that was the moment. And And what did Yeah. What was that that step look like? Yeah. Next day I started looking up online some resources, some places that I could go to. I'd already tried therapy and um I'd already tried doing it in my own strength, so to speak, and nothing seemed to work. and Stepping Stones uh popped up as a good recommendation. And we talked about this on one of our podcast episodes the other day that I finally got told what I needed to hear. It wasn't what I wanted to hear, but it was what I needed to hear. And sometimes those truths, um, golly, they're so powerful. They hurt. They sting, but man, the the generational impact of just hearing what you need to hear cannot be overstated. Y and uh just telling me you you can't you can't continue to have a relationship with alcohol. You just can't. So it sounds like you you made a decision and you went to treatment. How how fast did that process happen? Oh, within a couple of days. Uh I want to say maybe even two. Yeah. Two days. Couple of days. Went to the facility, had the conversation with the lady who told me that and I started at the facility actually going to the meetings the following Monday. Yeah, I went there for 60 days, graduated, got the tools and how to live a life of sobriety. Doesn't mean it was easy. I'm I'm I'm giving this very condensed. It it was hard. Uh dealing with a lot of shame, a lot of guilt, a lot of relationship problems, and uh my brain was a mess. took about a year, which I'd say realistically for most people if you are trying to begin that process of sobriety. I don't know what your experience was like, but for me it took about a year for my brain to Yeah, my frontal lobe cortex is still is still under repair, I guess. I mean, it's maybe it's a lifelong Yes, might be. I mean, we're in process the rest of our life, right? Um cuz we first met you were in that that first year of sobriety, right? Whenever you came to Yeah. I want to say when we started the book was that September of 23 I want to say. Yeah. Cuz it had been published yet and I had printed copies. So I started stepping stones in January 23, finished March 23 and I think we started and you know as you know with dealing with spouses, you need to give it time for them to heal too, right? It's a sensitive subject. they're um upset and rightfully so. And so I'd say when we started our small group, that was finally the baby steps for us to begin healing our marriage, our relationship, uh communicating more, um just working towards, you know, some healing cuz you had a I remember when when we first met you, you didn't have like a huge wallet, but you had some kind of guards up. You just And I mean, everybody has that. We don't know what yet, you know, in that first year of my sobriety like um don't Jesus juke me. Yeah. Right. Don't don't ask me to do a whole lot of you know things like let me just let me keep a let me keep my kids alive. Let me keep me alive. Let me keep a plant alive. Let me try pet alive. You know what I mean? Like there's just very basic things. And so I was still in secret too. I was still I didn't want my family to know. I didn't want um certain friends to know. I remember going and playing golf in my first few months of sobriety. And some of the people I was playing with didn't realize it and they would say things about sobriety. And I was sensitive. I mean, there's just no other way to put it. I was sensitive. I was tender. Yeah. And uh vulnerable and broken and just rock bottom like you said. So, but you got in a small group and so you started changing that that dynamic. I think it's important um to point out that we learned in that small group, you know, from Katie's point of view. You know, I remember the biggest thing that stood out that I don't think it made her mad, but it was a point that she wanted to make is that we are taught to be selfish. I've mentioned this a few times on the podcast. We're taught to be selfish in our sobriety because, you know, we're we're we're taught, you know, or people once they're ready, you know, taught it's it's God, then your spouse, then your kids. And that's hard for people to understand. But then when you're in sobriety, you have to if that's looked at as a spine, then sobriety has to kind of be the spinal fluid that blends in between all of that. You know, if I don't have the sobriety, I can't be the person that's, you know, in connection with God as I understand him. Sure. Or good to my good for my spouse or good for my children. So that's where the healthy selfishness comes in. You've got to not put yourself first, but you got to put your sobriety first and just be willing and it intimidates people, you know. Um, so I do remember Katie though when we said that, she's like, "Well, you know what about us?" You know, just cuz you and I went away to a treatment or whatever, didn't matter who our playground playmates and play habits were, we got to remember that they can't be forgotten about. We have to now bring them along with us. So, and shout out to her. She did a great job. I mean, she really uh encouraged me and let gave me the space and um time that I needed to heal. And we circle back, you know, we we circle back to her um doing this and we had difficult conversations and I couldn't imagine doing that with anybody else. Yeah. So, she's she's been great. How about our young friend Sam over here that was leading our our small group at the CFA on Mondays. Now, Sam, I didn't I haven't known you that long, but I met you through this small group. But, you know, um the guys are in that small group, uh you know, you have an impact on each one of us through the way that you deliver your your message of your relationship with God as you understand him. So, have you ever dealt with anything that could have been addiction? Yeah, that that's a that's a great question, Eric. Thanks for having us on. I'm grateful to be here. Um, yeah. I I think the the closest um closest thing I would say to an addiction um that I've struggled with in the past and even now is still a struggle would be um really sexual um sexual sin. I think um not necessarily something unique to me. I know that's something that a lot of people struggle with. Um, but I think one of the keys there in in really any type of sin that gets a a stronghold in your life, something that's really hard to overcome is really emphasizing who you're around. even that question you asked um if you're hanging around a group of people whether you know you're struggling with alcohol or struggling with pornography or whatever it is if you're struggling if you're hanging around a group of people Eric that um maybe don't take it very seriously uh if it's kind of on the back burner um that's going to really play into how you handle your own sin how you handle your own sobriety your own struggles because we're a product of our environment and I think if we're not careful who we're around, we're going to end up acting the same way and steering people the same way that uh that we're around. And so um one of the biggest blessings for me has been um you guys and in in our small group because when I'm surrounding myself by people that are encouraging growth, encouraging um pursuit of God in, you know, encouraging pursuit of um godly character, that's going to rub off on me. And so, you know, really one of the biggest things I think um that I've tried to do in my in my um struggle to to be pure is by surrounding myself with with godly men. That is, I think, one of the core core foundational pieces in um pursuing uh freedom from any type of of addiction. Yeah. No, I get it. And and the book, you know, people see that they may think that, you know, marriage after addiction is for people that just have had issues with drugs and alcohol, but that's not the case. In the first chapter, we explain the difference between a a substance addiction and a process addiction. Porn would be a process addiction. And it it could it needs to be worked through just like any other thing that that is a hurt, habit, hangup, whatever you want to call it. Um, and so, yeah, it's it's it's a good tool and a resource. You know, I think about uh couple of our buddies in our small group and uh John comes to mind. I love John. He's just a big football. Shout out John. Just just this guy. Shout out. He that's what I like. That's why I always get very genuine. He ra he's he solely admits his his thoughts and processes and all the things that he feels like he's working on. He doesn't understand how much he helps me just because he's real. Well, we've we've talked about that in the last few meetings and he's he's said that about like me and about Sam and just how it helps him like when we bring stuff into the light and how he's like, "Oh man, I've been struggling with that, you know, and I'm so glad you said that." Now, this this group is real, you know, this group is real. And that's the key is not going in and just being fluff and pretend like actually being vulnerable. And like we all struggle with the same things. That that's the thing, Corin. the more you you hang out with with good people, um because you're a product of your environment, they rub off on you and you start to realize that we we all have so much in common. Yeah. The the thing that you think you're you're struggling with that nobody else is or you don't want to bring it into the light because of how people might think think about you. When you're around a good group of guys or or ladies or whoever you're around that um is good for you, it's amazing um the healing that that that happens. Um maybe not overnight, but over time. It's it's a beautiful thing 100%. And I think it's important too like for for folks that go through what Corbin and I went through, we we don't we may not be ready for a small group in that first year. Um it's intimidating. Um especially when you've you've defined yourself as this person and now um I'm trying to think of the best word. Crazy Christian isn't a good word to use, but I'm saying it like I don't want in the beginning uh to be in a situation where I can't be myself. And that's what I mean when I say that about John. Like when I joined a small group, when I was invited to a small group, I was nervous going into that because I looked at myself as, you know, right here, which is fine and these people had it together. Um, that's intimidating to new new people when they walk in that are in recovery, especially when you're just trying your best to do the next right thing and trying to figure out what that looks like. when the in the midst of drinking now seeing hindsight and removing the plank it's like I was wearing a mask and so at that beginning stage of going to stepping stones and taking the mask off and walking into a room of like 20 other people I didn't know these people from Adam but they all struggled with substance abuse um whether it was alcohol pills whatever and I remember as they were going around the room every morning we would go through this routine for about an hour and a half And each person was would spend some time talking about their life and just kind of unpacking where they're at, how many days sober they are, uh what they struggled with, what their sobriety date is, and uh the things that they would say, they were just like, you know, yeah, this was going on and that was going on, and I felt like this. And I was just like, wait a second, they're talking my language, you know, they're they this is the first time I'm seeing actual spiritual darkness coming into the light where there was healing there. Um, and it was just so subtle, but it was so powerful at the same time. And that's so huge getting into small groups to do that. Yeah. Um, no, you're right. I I remember when I was in treatment, you looked around the room and it it it ranged from all kinds 20some to Yeah. I think one lady was in her 70s. Yeah. She had an issue with pills and but we all wanted the same thing. Did and it didn't matter what house we came from when we got there. We all had the same issue. You know what I mean? And I say house because I mean background. Yeah. Or authority or placement in the world. You know what I mean? Um when we were when I picked you guys up this morning at the airport, you know, I know that you guys have a podcast following him. Great podcast. Um but you guys talk about the Bible a lot. I don't because I'm still learning. You know what I mean? I'm still reading the Bible. Um and I'm always going to be in process trying to figure that out. But we don't have it all figured out. Oh, good. Yeah, nobody is a lifelong thing. But I mean I appreciate you guys uh doing that and educating people from your point of view in that. But you asked um or we brought this came up uh Mark 2. Mhm. So Mark 2 is kind of a story of small groups if you think about it and I don't I don't get preachy a lot and I'm not doing that here but you you asked or maybe it was Gary you know what is recovery vow you know if you put a scripture with it and I would say it was a it's a Mark 2 nonprofit you know I'm you know knocking on door to door you want to give us yeah raise money for our nine profit uh but you know in Mark 2 Jesus returned to Capernaum and he uh was in Peter's house And all these folks gather around just to get closer to him. And there was a paralytic man outside and this group of people came and they took him to the roof and they tore the roof off and they lowered the middle because they couldn't even get to the house. Right. And so I take myself Mhm. And I can be in every one of those three dynamics in that story. I've been the person that's outside of the house looking with friends dragging you with friends. Yeah. I've been the person on the mat. Mhm. And I've been the person that's worked really hard to carry somebody to the roof to do the work to get them to see what God has in store for them. Mhm. And I think that's what recovery is for a lot of for a lot of people, especially when you think about the families that are affected. That's our original small group, you know, and not every relationship is going to be fixed immediately and some may be torn afterwards. Um, but there's a there's a sense of hope in that scripture that that I love so much that we all strive to want the same thing or we want the same thing for others and that's just to be closer to God. Now, again, I'm not here to preach the word. I'm here to just break it down for the way that my um still slightly ignorant mind is still understanding it. It's a perfect illustration. That's how I understand it. Cuz when you hit rock bottom, when Katie found that vodka cup, I was the paralytic man, right? Like I I couldn't walk. I was numb and I needed help. Yep. Who was going to carry me? And she carried you and she carried to the roof. She carried me to the roof and Jesus met me at stepping stairs, right? And it was the beginning of um the process of healing. Yep. Yeah. And now it's the circle of life. Now I see if I see a paralytic man, now I want to be the one carrying that paralytic man to the to the roof. Yeah. Same with you. Yeah. You want to be that that one that friend to carry the paralytic to Jesus or whoever, however that person needs to be healed. Yeah. I love that story. It's a perfect story. Do you and your spouse need real connection on your recovery journey? Are you looking for resources to help you keep your marriage intact? The Recovery Bow Collective exists to support couples in recovery with tools, community, and live monthly support from myself and my team. Join us now at recoverybow.com/collective. So, why don't you guys tell Sam, both you guys are married. Tell me a little bit about your your marriage. How many how many kids you got? And Yeah, so I've been married it'll be six years. on November 9th. I think I got that date right. And I've got it right. Yeah. Um I've three kids. Um uh Christiey's four. Uh my son Sunny is two. And then my little girl Sally was is uh 7 months old now. So born in January, right? I guess 8 months old. So yeah. Um, you know, marriage is I always heard this um growing up, even before I got married, is marriage is one of the hardest but best things um you could ever do. And I was okay, whatever. You know, you hear that when you're younger, and it's it's so true. It is a hard thing. You sick two selfish people in the same house and we're called to live together in unity and love and and serve each other. That is a hard thing. And I add kids to that. And then you add kids, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh but it is also um I think when you embrace and acknowledge the um potential difficulties there, embrace it and then realize how the Lord is using that to grow you is is really a beautiful amazing thing. And I think um our marriage is far from perfect mostly cuz I'm involved. But through that um the Lord Yeah. Yeah. You guys all laugh because you know that's true. Okay. But the the Lord is using that to just um do some amazing things, not only through us um but towards our kids. And so um it's it's a really beautiful thing. But yeah, it's work. You got to work hard and you have to expect there's going to be some bumps, but the more you grow in that, the more the Lord shapes and uses you. Um it it's an amazing thing. I wouldn't trade it for the world. Can I ask you a serious question? Absolutely. Um and I don't mean this to be like an interview, but I just want to ask the question. when you when you admit to your spouse that you have this process issue, addiction, whatever you want to call it, to uh to a process of substance like pornography. How did that play out in in the house? Um was it the same as the vodka cup on the floor and and you walk through that together? Um how's that look for you guys? Yeah, especially cuz you're like how old are you? 202 Yeah, 27. 27. I know. I know. I was like 20. Um, but yeah, so the way that's worked out for us is, and I I should clarify, I struggle with a lot more than just porn. But that's I would say is the number one thing that's been a struggle for me. Um, it it uh it reached a point where I just had to admit to her, come and confess. Um, I don't have the ability to uh I'm not a very sneaky person. Sometimes I wish I was more sneaky, but uh my conscious just yells at me so much that I have to I just have to admit it after certain certain points. So, um I've had to come to my wife multiple times in our marriage and confess um you know pornography and stuff like that. And um again when I say it's such a hard thing because that leads to some very very hard conversations. It led to lots of difficult seasons mostly again due to my own selfishness and sin. But through that, through the Lord um really using um you know, my honesty and my willingness to no matter the cost pursue healing. That really for me what it comes down to is am I do I care more about just being comfortable and not having conflict in my marriage or do I care more about having a marriage that is actually thriving and and going in the right direction? And I I reached the point it's I I care more about it thriving and going in the right direction than just being comfortable. And so admitting to her um and then getting accountability in my life, taking the right steps. It's not enough just to say it. It's you actually have to put some put feet on the ground and start moving. Um and then um from my wife's end, I think I can speak for for her. She's she's learned a lot about forgiveness, right? Is how do I forgive somebody that's wronged me? Um and and wrong God, right? And so, um, it's it's been it's been a a long journey and and, um, definitely not perfect at all by any stretch, but it's been amazing to see that even through my own sin, how the Lord's used that to grow and and make me the person I am today. And I even think of, you know, Corbin's story and I think of yours. Yes. You know, you don't want to go back and relive those days, but you would not be here today without what happened. There's just no way. 100%. And that's I take some comfort in that. Do you think um yeah a process addiction like that should be treated the same as a substance addiction because substance is going to treatment you know marking your time in sobriety. Do you feel like if you um um viewed that um that sin or that porn for example um if that happened again would you count that as a relapse? Um, yes, I I would count it as a relapse in the sense of I'm falling back into something that I know I shouldn't. That is um horrible for me and for my marriage. So, yes, that is a relapse in that sense. I I would say I would absolutely want to treat it like a substance in the sense of I need to take this seriously. I need to put some steps in my life and not just kind of not act like it's not a big deal. Um, the reason Corbin went um to Stepping Stones, the reason people go to Recovery Vow, the reason they order your book is because it's gotten so bad they realize they need help. It's out of their control. And so, just like a substance um addiction, a process addiction would be the same. You It needs to get bad enough for you to realize I can't do this on my own and I need help. Um, and that means getting help, whether that's talking to you, your book, you know, some program. It's it's it's getting off your butt and making some steps. Otherwise, you're just going to live and relapse. Yeah. There's a I wonder and I'll have to look at chat GPT um cuz I love ChatGpt, but if I wonder if you asked Chat GPT, what are the amount of marriages that fail due to um sexual addiction? Cuz I feel like sexual addiction is on the rise just from things I read and talk people talk about on the podcast. um in comparison to marriages that suffer from, you know, an alcohol or drug addiction. So, I have to look at that and find out. I would uh I'm just guessing if you want to look it up while I'm talking. Uh I think that like substance abuse is a gateway into other sin. Um and Oh, yeah. When you get that liquid courage. Yeah. Yeah. Uh but at the same time, same thing could be said as I'm thinking with um with sexual addiction through pornography. U sin's never satisfied, right? So whichever route you go, uh you know, it's probably going to lead you down a path of destruction. Let's just call it like it is. I don't think it whatever the stats say. Our producer Eric just read out that 56% that's shock of marriages this shock according to Chad GPT 56% of marriages fail from uh some type of sexual addiction content porn and Chad GPT is never wrong. No, Mr. I love it. And um 4% which I thought that I I thought that would be a higher number like a way higher number 50. So wonder if it's 4% of recovery. So my question is what's the other 40%. What's is it money? Money's got to be out there. It's got to be finances has got to be 20%. I bet something like that. Yeah. But I think the point the point being what whatever it is you struggle with, you're not alone. You're not unique. There's there's millions of other people. Yeah. And then and then you need to be in a group um that's going to push you to take your stuff seriously and and get help, but also not push you away when you have to admit your your your sin. Well, the key is what you just said, and it goes back to Eric's question at the very beginning to me is who that group is. who that group is is so important because if you get around the group that's going to call it tickling your ears telling you what you want to hear, you got to watch out for that cuz I mean that's the key is if if you've got friends that are just going to tell you always what you want to hear, that's not going to sharpen you and help you. Yeah. I got a buddy JT at work that he is like he's the pastor, you know what I mean? Um happy late birthday JT. Yeah, happy late birthday JT. we love you. Um, but he's he's the one that tells me like or he's the one that was raised like there's certain movies he won't watch because he he knows it will affect the way he thinks. Certain music he won't listen to my music. Um he's like I can't listen to that, you know, but I cannot not listen to that kind of stuff, you know. Um so it depends on how severe and how far you want to go with it too. Yeah. If it's like, you know, it doesn't mean that I don't believe what he's saying. It is true. Like if I watch a bunch of just junk junk. I mean, you fill yourself with junk, you're gonna get junk out. Yeah. Yeah. But I love a good documentary or a good Sure. Getting yourself I mean, so I get it. Um I'm just not that strict. Yeah. Long as I'm sober, everybody else is good. That's what we need. Well, and I think Eric, I think that's where um and there's multiple passages in the scriptures that talk about it, but that's where we we have to we are called to live in community. We're called to live um um with a group of of like-minded people. We're told that um you know, if you're around people with bad character, that's going to affect you. But I think we're also called to meet each other with grace. It it's okay if Eric and I disagree on what type of movies we're going to watch. That's that's okay. And that's that's not Jesus isn't going to ask me when I get to the the pearly gates if I make it, hey, you know, how many R-rated movies did you that that's not going to be the question. Again, I'm not saying that there aren't movies we shouldn't watch. There's tons of movies we shouldn't watch. But we it's so easy to make Eric and I's relationship or Corbin and I's relationship about, hey, what movies, what music? And we just make all these rules and rules and rules and rules. Um, instead of realizing, no, we're called to relationship not only with Jesus, but to each other. And so if if we if we do see something in each other's life that maybe we're worried about, we should come alongside, put a hand on the shoulder instead of a shove in the back, right? And I think if we had that mentality, um it would really save probably a lot of relationships. Well, we have to do it in our in our marriages, too. And then I think about Kristen and I like she I came Nothing wrong with it. I was raised in a mobile home. She lives in a brick home. And and that doesn't matter, but it kind of you're you're brought up differently. Yeah. You have to find the level playing field. Same with my friend JT I'm talking about. Well, he's not going to listen to '90s rock or rap like I would play on the golf course. Yeah. And I'm not going to listen to all the Christian music that I love, but I'm not going to play that, you know, on repeat on the golf course. So, we listen to yacht rock. Yeah. And it's like a happy medium. So, it's a way that we kind of honor each other. Um, and you know that's but it's it's because I want to surround myself with that small group of people. I have a small group of people. Um, have you guys ever taken the any rim? Mhm. So I'm a three. You've ever taken any room? I can't remember my number. It's on my phone, but I told a million times that I need you what number? I I was told that a million times. But like I know a lot of people and enjoy knowing a lot of people but I don't have that closeness but with just a few people and and I'll work on the relationships that I want to matter. Those are the ones that I nurture. Does that make sense? Yeah. It's because I want those people. JT's 10 years younger now almost, you know, but you know, I think about him and and his influence in just planting those small seeds of, you know, what you listen to, what you watch, all that. That mean I'm going to do it, but he just plants the seed. And then I'm that way. I can be that for other people that allow me to be in their circle. You guys would be that, you know, John would be that. Um, and so that's where I want to just circle back as we as we finish the conversation of just the importance of our playgrounds, our playmates, and our play habits in different kinds of of recovery. So, as we um kind of land the plane a little bit. Let's let's highlight what you guys are doing on your podcast, Following him. Tell me tell me where that came from. Okay. Okay. Where the name came from or the podcast? No, I want to hear because this is how I'm going to this I want you to use this platform to to let people know that they can come listen to you guys. So, where did it come from? So, we got this is the Lego. Yes. Shout out to our wife. She came up with the design and everything. She did a great job. So, we're it's up and coming. What are we 6 months in? Something like that. I think we're three three three and a half months of episodes. We've been at it for 6 months. About three and a half of episodes. Um How did you decide to do it with through the small group? You know, there's another reason to have a small group. Uh yeah, you want to? Yeah, I'll share. So, um Hurricane Helen hit Augusta, Georgia really bad. Everybody knows that from you know what, 10 11 months ago. So, the normal group uh that I was meeting with was like 120 people. Um like a a men's breakfast at a church. So, that stopped for Hurricane Helen for 4 weeks. So I me and and John and Allan, I texted both of them and a couple other guys and was like, "Hey, let's let's just meet once a week while um you know, we wait for Momentum, that's the name of the group, to start back up." And so we met at Chick-fil-A on Mondays at 6:30. And um you know, some other guys came, but eventually just me, me, Allan, and John for a little bit. And then um we just decided we loved it so much um because it was the the bigger group was great but it was hard to get um actually um intimate if you will and talk about deep things. And so we we never stopped. We've been meeting for almost a year. And so Allan's good good buddies with Corbin invited Corbin and I had known met Corbin once or twice before. Um so Corbin um came one week I think it was early January and uh we uh we just hit it off. we started talking the word and and which is what we do on those Monday mornings and he was like hey I've been thinking about starting a podcast you know would you want to maybe do that with me and I'm like sure what what are we going to do it about and uh we decided to start going through the book of Matthew line by line and just talking about how uh the word of God can play a very important and crucial role in in somebody's life today in 2025 and what that looks like for a 27-year-old real estate agent and you know a 37y old Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He looks really 37y old insurance agent. And so, um, just going through it and, um, yeah, it's been it's been really great. We we we call it following him because that's our life goal, man. Our life goal as Christians is to follow Jesus. And so, we're doing that through the book of Matthew. Um, and yeah, just really grateful for Corbin's invitation to to kind of hop on board because it's been a wild and woolly ride the last nine months. You know, Eric, I know you started this up a little over a year ago, but it's just you kind of learn as you go. It's all on the fly. And uh so yeah, well, my mom said I had the perfect face of radio, and you got the nice voice, too. It's the voice, too. Uh but yeah, we're just we're figuring it out. And like you said, line by line, verse by verse, and we're just where God's word will meet you in your life. Uh, not only that, but just we're using our story, our vulnerabilities, and we're just being transparent with people and showing them where the gospel can really transform you. Um, if you receive it, a lot of people um, they don't want to acknowledge what it can do for them. And I hope and pray that we inspire them to receive the the gospel is really the only hope that we have on this side uh that can transform a broken drunk and someone who struggles with uh porn. I mean like it's the only thing and we're all we're all on the same level playing field, you know, just to the roof. That's it, man. Just hold them to the roof. And then Eric, you've been in our group for what, three uh four months? If you count all the Mondays I've shown up month with your cream with a dabble of coffee in it. If anyone saw us either in Eric's office at uh or or at Chick-fil-A, they'd be like, "What are these guys doing?" We were a weird group, but we have flip-flops, James. He has so much fun. The conversations are are crazy. John brings the humor for sure. Joe, you know, I would say though that our group and call me biased, but this is what it's supposed to be like as a Christian, right? Culture has really gotten the name of Christianity has has been a little bit misconstrued and what represents a true Christian. But like this fellowship that we have to me it represents true brotherhood of what Jesus came and built with his disciples. And I mean, he had Matthew who was this awful sinful tax collector mixed with Peter and John. And like, you know, those guys didn't quite have everything together, but they came together and they formed a brotherhood, you know, and uh the special small group. Yeah. It's special. It truly to me it's that is following Christ. They changed each other's lives. Absolutely. And that's what happens with us and that's why it's important. But um I do want to say that I'm very thankful that you guys got up at whatever time this morning and made the the flight and travel here to Dallas, Texas. Man, beautiful facility and unbelievable studio you got here today. We're here at EXO Studios in South Lake and it's um it's been such a blessing to connect with with this group. They they are fantastic um in the marriage ministry and um how they're reaching a lot of people. And so I'm just so grateful you guys came. Now we're going to we're going to hang out for the next couple of days. cuz we're going to go to a baseball game tonight. We'll go downtown Dallas later and we'll get some dinner. But um but it means the world to me that you came and I want to say to both of you that I am very proud of you. Thank you. And and I'm very proud of you, too. You know, I I kind of threw you a curveball to kind of get you to talk about, you know, a substance or a process addiction. Um cuz I sent you a chat GPT thing two months ago about what we're going to talk about just kind of throw you off that I definitely probably did not read. No, you didn't. That's so great. But um but I do want to just say again, thank you for coming, making the trip. And I know that this episode in its own way will reach someone. And that's what we're doing this for is the one lost sheep or the paralytic that needs to be held up to the roof. Look at you, pastor. Yeah, man. No, we're proud of you, too. You're doing great things, man. And uh love what you're doing for the families. And for you those that don't know that Recovery Val is a nonprofit, and Corbin's on my board, he's he's also one of our donors and supporters. And so um we outside of our friendship we we have we have that and u it just means a lot. It means a lot. You're part of the reason that we are doing what we're doing. There's always more. So thank you so much. Yeah man. Absolutely. Enjoyed having you. Thank you for having us.