If Something Didn't Change, We Would Be Done | Recovery Vow Podcast

In this episode of The Recovery Vow Podcast, Eric Kennedy sits down with Todd and Haley to talk about their journey of marriage, addiction, and recovery. Todd opens up about his struggle with alcoholism, the turning points that led him into treatment, and the challenges of rebuilding life after rehab. Haley shares her perspective as a supportive spouse, walking the line between love, faith, and tough decisions when addiction threatened their family.

Together, they discuss what nearly 15 years of marriage, four kids, and almost a year of sobriety have taught them about resilience, faith, and the power of not giving up on each other. Their story is honest, raw, and filled with hope for couples walking through similar struggles.

Tune in for an inside look at what it means to fight for your marriage in the middle of addiction—and what recovery looks like on the other side.


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• Transcript

  Hey guys, thanks so much for joining us on the Recovery About podcast. Today I'm going to dive right into chapter one. Uh you'll hear my definition of help my spouse is an addict from my book, Marriage After Addiction. And as we go through that, I open up and I talk to Todd and Haley. Now Todd has a testimony in his recovery, but we really dive into what their young marriage looks like. Haley, who's the most patient person in America, being a a mother of four, and Todd just understanding that he had an issue and that he made a decision to go into treatment in a different way. Um, and after 29 days, 29 1/2 days, they started their life over. So, sit back and enjoy this episode. If you aren't already subscribed to our YouTube channel, you can do so at recovery bell. You can also go to Facebook, Instagram, even Tik Tok and follow us there. You can stream on any platform. But uh just sit back and enjoy this episode. Welcome to the Recovery Vow podcast. I'm your host, Eric Kennedy. All right, Haley Todd, I just want to say thank you guys for coming to uh our recovery valve podcast today. Now, I want to start by just opening the book Marriage After Addiction because you guys are I say fresh in recovery. Todd, you you're coming up on a year on Wednesday. So, I wanted to share you know this the book I wrote, Marriage After Addiction: Take Back Your Life Together. If I broke this down uh these 13 chapters into sections, this this first section would be what I would call your work that goes into you know the process of starting and and chapter one is help my spouse is an addict. And in that chapter I explain the difference between um process addiction and substance addiction. So for viewers at home process addiction would be something like porn addiction, gaming addiction, even cell phone addiction. You know people deal with that. But then your substance addictions are your drugs, alcohol, pills, things like that. But in that chapter, it says, "Help my spouse as an addict." It helps you understand very practically um what he's going through. A lot of times you get you're forgotten about as a spouse, but now once he and I are in recovery, you guys are in recovery together. So at the end of every chapter, there's questions that you answer as a supporting spouse. There's questions that he would answer as the person in recovery. And then there's questions that you guys would answer uh together. So I want to go to the end of the chapter. There's there's seven questions at the end of chapter 1 and I just wanted to pull one of those questions and that would help us kind of lead into a conversation. Um and I'm just going to read the very first one. Um what addictive behaviors or substances did Todd deal with as your spouse that he was struggling with? and um how did they impact your health and the health of your relationship? So if you had to answer that for our viewers and our listeners um so his addiction was alcohol um specifically beer and he What was your beer choice? Mill. Okay. As many as possible. How how many as many like in an afternoon? I'd probably say tall boys 8 to 12, 14 every day. Every probably the last year and a half. Yeah. Whatever was there, it was gone by the end of the end of the night. Um I I realized that it was more than just a drinking problem. It was more of an addiction. Whenever I started to notice his uh demeanor changing, you know, I would tell him, "You weren't even the same person." We would we would joke early on in our marriage, it's like, "Oh, well, after five beers, I'm going to stay away from you." kind of thing. Um just because he wasn't who I'm who I married. And um so I think it it developed an unhealthy relationship in that because for one, I didn't want to be around him when he drank. I mean, it started to be like, "Okay, well, you can do that, but I'm not." And we even talked about last night, um, I told him, I said, "Do you remember when it got to the point where I would just say, I'm not drinking at all if I can help, you know, guide you to not drink anymore?" How long? Okay, that's a great point to make. So, you guys, you drank also, but you were willing to stop just to help him stop. Yes, because mine was just here and there. Yeah. I mean I leverage between a social drinker and wishing the social drinker for sure. Yes. I I could I could go somewhere and everyone be drinking and me not. I was just as fine being the person to get us home safely then. Yeah. You know, not going to be different. We're going to accomplish a mission. Mhm. How long have you guys been married? 14 years. 14 years in October. Really? You look really young. Like you've only been married like a few years, but you guys have four kids. Yes. And been married 14 years. How soon into the relationship um did you think or know that God probably had an issue? Probably before we got married. Yeah. Probably before we got married. It just it wasn't Maybe it was that I was okay with that lifestyle at that point. Um not okay with addiction, but okay with the lifestyle living. Okay. say, "Well, it doesn't matter if we don't go to bed till 2:00 in the morning or we're out doing this or out doing that." And then once we started um having kids and, you know, being grown-ups, I'd like to say, um I started and and also once I came to faith, I started my life kind of started to change and that wasn't what my goals were anymore. My goals were, you know, to raise our kids up and situations that, you know, not like that. Yeah. And and when you get past your 20s, it's hard to stay up past 2:00 or function the next day when you stayed up for 2:00. That's right. That's right. But just can you know just tell us um tell us as a supporting spouse um you know what those 14 years look like? You know, knowing he had an issue, but what was something that um really stuck out that that drove you to say, "Okay, I've got to help my spouse or or else?" Um, honestly, I felt like I helped him or I was trying to help him for a really long time. Um, years. And you slowly realize that the things that you say, they're not helping him. They're pushing him further away. He he would see it as I can't ever do anything right. Nothing's good enough. You know, I'm drinking a beer in my house. What's wrong with that? And I'm like, well, one leads to 12. Like so where I thought that I was helping, leading, guiding, I wasn't. So it took me completely saying like, I can't do this. I can't help you. Like the Lord's got to take a hold of this. So I I remember just at church one night just crying on my knees just saying, "Lord, like this is in your hands. I can't do anything else." And um it was probably that next day we were at home and we were in the backyard and so Oh, it was the same day. It was the same day. Okay. So, it was after church and I just remember the Lord saying, "Leave him." And I'm like, "This is not of God." Like, "God would not tell me to leave my husband." And um sure enough, yes, he would. Because that's what started the change. So, I loaded the kids up and we just went to his parents. his parents have been big in influences in all of this and in our lives. Um, we just went to his parents and I didn't tell him at first cuz it's not uncommon for all of us just to go down there and it's probably 10:00 and she's like, "Haley, it's getting late. You're not going to take the kids home." And I was like, "I can't go back. I can't go back." And you know, she just cried. We all kind of cried. And then I kind of told him what was going on. And then how long after that did you Oh, it was couple weeks at least. Yeah, it was it was rough. I think we stayed at his parents for a couple weeks um before he kind of made that decision. All right, get get real with us for a minute. Like, okay, tell me what got you to that point to make that decision. What was what was something you remember that was a rock bottom as um the wife? Um I it's I would look in his eyes and there was nobody there. I mean there was there was no love. There was no person. It was an empty soul. It was so weird. I just remember I looked at him and I just said I don't even know who you are anymore. Like you are not the person I married. You what what would you do if our daughter was standing here with you as their spouse? like what what would you tell her to do? And he said I'd have told her to left leave a long time ago. And I was like, "What do you do for a living?" Uh I'm a nurse. Okay. Cuz you're you've got some really good bedside men. Like Oh, are is this is this you 24/7? Like I feel like she's in that moment. This is the same tone you would have like, "Oh yeah, we talked about tone a lot." Yeah. She pretty much keeps us in line, but everything she's saying is spot on. I mean, it's exactly how it happened. There was no yelling. There was no cursing. There was not There was nothing. It was from the heart. Yeah. So, not for me at least. Yeah, that was true. Well, I mean I mean I really can I can tell like you it's like you lay it out and that's why I'm trying to dig like what what was rock bottom, what was a hurt moment, but it sounds like you just kind of smiled and said, "Look, bro, we're we're done for a couple of weeks. We'll be your mom and dad." Yeah, I didn't. I I I mean I was very nice about it. I want you to see the kids. Like I don't want to pull them away from you, but I need to know you're not going to drink when you have them. Um I just told him cuz at this point I can't trust you. And we would always say like he's a wonderful wonderful father. Yeah. Terrible husband. I've said the same thing before. Well, I used a different word, but it was it was pretty close. You can say the word. I'm a uh great father but a shitty husband is what I would say. Yeah. And the reason I ask you is that I'm not look over a bunch of cuss words so please don't get mad at me but I mean people need to see the realness in this. I don't want you guys coming on and feel like this has got to be so scripted like say the word you know. Yeah. Not that I want you sit there and just cuss back and forth but people want you to be raw and real you know. Um that's why I was asking are are you like this all the time because you seem just very Yeah. Yeah, if she yells, it's uh something really bad has happened. But she usually comes across in this tone and I'm understand that she she can reach me way better this way than she can any other way. So just and it's speaking from the heart. Yeah. And she cares about it. So I can tell she cares about you, too. She she sent me an email um a few months back and you know you were you were um you were 251 days out of treatment and am I do I have that right? 270 270 271 yeah 271 it was it was a two and a one. Yeah. Um but it was almost a year and so you're coming up on a year. Yep. On Wednesday. On Wednesday. Two days from now. That's huge. That's really huge. And for people that are listening, I mean, it it getting sober's um easy. It's the staying sober that's hard. And so, every day counts and every day matters. So, Todd, when we talk about the perspective from you, um what do you feel like uh if you could talk to another guy that's out there um in the same line of work or uh the same upbringing, you know, what what was life like for you? do you feel like made you want to drink that much? So, growing up, uh, we're in church every Sunday, Monday, and Wednesday, and we were always there. Uh, my dad and my mom are real involved in the church. My dad was a deacon. He's an elder now. Um, I don't know what it was exactly. I think it was just it was put on us like this not what we're going to do. And at age 14, I had my first drink. I remember where I was, who I was with. Was hanging out with some older guys. And uh kind of What was your first drink? A uh Coors Light. It was disgusting. Mine was um Canadian Hunter with Mountain Deer. No, it was three three of those in a solo cup. I was I think couches. I think I babyed that first one. And uh I think it was just wanted to fit in. And I remember a guy that uh he was in our wedding and everything. He just told he goes, "Hey, you don't have to do this." I was like, "No, I want to." Mhm. And I wish I could go back in time and I said this the other day just if I could go back into a moment that would be the moment. Yeah. Of just not going to peer pressure and not just trying to fit in. I I did I dealt with the same thing. It was there's something about fitting in at that young age where especially for us guys it's you want to be viewed as that dude. You know what I mean? So I get it. I relate to it. Did anything happen like when you were younger that you felt like was traumatic that made you think that way? No, I think I just kind of wanted to go with the flow and just I hung out with older people when I was uh growing up and uh not not really many kids my age. I kind of just gravitated towards older kids and it's so weird. It's and uh it's just one of those things where it happened and it kind of got the ball rolling. It was maybe once, twice a month when I could get out and do it. But I had strict parents. So when I when I came home, I was blowing in in their face to make sure that there was no alcohol. And uh I try to stay the night anywhere I could. And if I did, my dad was there about 7:30, 8:00 to pick me up. So yeah, just like a small town. You grew up in a small town? Yeah. We had about 14,000 people. Everybody knew everybody. Yeah. So couldn't get couldn't get away with a lot, right? But I tried. So, um, but you you found the you found the balance to get through all this, I guess, through high school, college, or whatever. But, um, do you remember any point where you're like, if if I keep doing this, I can see where my addictive personality is coming out, or did you know it? Did you feel like you knew it at 14? No, I don't think so. I think later. I think college was a uh was a big moment of just realizing that I mean it was usually Wednesday through Sunday and it was drink before you went to the bar cuz you weren't old enough to buy there. Mhm. And then uh once I became of age it was kind of downhill from there and it's kind of been that way. I mean, there's been ups and downs in our marriage and through different phases of life where I'd stop for a little bit and I'd pick up right where I was. High school or college? Yeah. High school. In my school. Cuz you're not you're not old. You look like you're 22. Oh, no. I'm 34. 34. He's 36. Um, we met I was 14 and he was 16 when we started dating. And And dated all through college. High school. College. High school. College. got married when you were 20. Yep. I was 20 years old when we got married. Had our first kid at 21. So, and I mean that's a lot. I mean, you guys are doing a lot at a young age. You know, you don't hear that a lot. I'm I'm glad to hear that though. I mean, really, especially in this this world today, like people I don't get it. I just don't understand how people date today and try to mix in, you know, that that lifestyle you're talking about at the same time. They're they're kind of lost. But you guys kind of knew what you were doing kind of. Uh, it was a bumpy road. I mean, I don't know. It was we I I knew what I wanted. That's my thing. And I there were so many times where people would tell me, I cannot believe that you're staying. I mean, through the the different phases of life that we have been through. I can't believe you stay. I can't believe you stay. Why don't you just leave him? And I thought, why why do you say, you know, where's the encouraging people? And I did have those, don't get me wrong, but I had a lot of negativity in my ear. And um I just thought like, who how how would that make not make me look, but if I left him when he's at his lowest point, I I'm his person. Like, I've got to continue pursuing him even though, you know, he's far away. I just I just knew God would bring him back to me. And I just knew that God would restore his heart and his life. Um that I I couldn't give up on him. I mean, that was never an option. Yes, leaving and stepping away, but totally giving up on him was not an option. Giving up on the situation and things that were going on. Absolutely. I was done with that. But then I needed God to step in and to change him. I mean, that's very smart what you just said. And a lot of people get lost in that. they get lost in the the enablement versus the support, you know what I mean? Um, and we, you know, we want to throw you on the enablement side, but you you stand firm in just supporting and understanding that you have a a part to play and and part of that's just kind of loving him through it, no matter what the outcome might be. But yeah, and it's not always easy. When he was at rehab, one of his counselors called me and it made it upset me so bad cuz he said he did he called me. And he said, "You're just an enabler." And I was like, "No, I'm not." I know that there are people that are enablers in these situations. I am not. I do not enable the Why would he Why do you think they said that? I don't know. They then what they had everybody or not everybody, but he said everyone their family members fill out some sort of questionnaire to figure out what what have you enabled in the situation? um how how do you make them think it's okay for the decisions that they make or something? And I was like, I'm I don't even want to fill that out because I'm not an enabler. And he was like, that's what they all say. I was like, okay. Oh, yeah. Would they? Yeah. That is not true at all. She's never She's always been one to say, hey, she would speak truth to me and I would just one out the other. Like I knew what she was saying was true, but I wasn't ready to give up that lifestyle. Yeah. Cuz I knew what would happen. What was um talk to me a little bit about like your hardest moment. Like what was the people call it rock bottom like if I would say you know your rock bottom that helped you find your your moment of clarity? You remember that moment? Yeah. The exact moment. Um, so for work we travel and go to conferences every now and then. I went to three in 24. Um, 2024. Yeah, 2024. So I was June, July, first week of August and it was five or six days here, five or six days here. She went with me for one of them and that was kind of our last two were all together. And then that next Sunday, so four or five days later, that's when the her and the kids moved out. And I just thought it was keep going as normal. Um, and kind of did my own thing still. Just stayed up late. Kind of was kind of a bachelor for a little bit and saw the see the kids every now and then. Kind of thought that that's a lifestyle I wanted, just kind of by myself. And I quickly learned that that was not true. um a lot of long nights thinking but still drinking. And uh I was down at a conference and she was blowing my phone up. I wasn't answering. Um the next morning she called me when the little one was going to school, which was normal. The little the little the four-year-old. Yeah. We call we call her the little one or the little. And uh she called and she said, "I'm not mad. I'm done. If you want to continue that lifestyle, me and the kids will not be here when you get back. And I heard the tone in her voice kind of like what you were just talking about, and I was like, "Yep, this is it." Like, not going to be a single dad, got four kids. Um, kind of a lot of different emotions and thoughts running through my head, but I knew right then if something didn't change, we were going to be done. So, that was a Thursday and then I left for rehab the next Thursday. Do you and your spouse need real connection on your recovery journey? Are you looking for resources to help you keep your marriage intact? The Recovery Bow Collective exists to support couples in recovery with tools, community, and live monthly support from myself and my team. Join us now at recoverybow.com/collective. Do you feel like um this is well it's a hard question to ask. I don't say it's a one and done, but like it takes a lot for people to just I'm going to do this. You know what I mean? Some people have to have the intervention or things like that. So she was she was kind of doing that a little bit in that message, but I mean for you to to grab that and go with it. So I already had planned. So this is just crazy. It's God's timing. U Sure. Like I knew that my pastor and I had been meeting quite a bit and he his wife had been talking to Haley quite a bit and they were trying to be they were trying to fill us with uh just good thoughts kind of feeding her with some good things and me with good things. And uh the day before I left for that conference I messaged my pastor and I just said, "Hey, we need to talk when I get back." And he had his phone in his hand. He never texts back immediately. And it was wild. He text me back and he said, "I was just about to text you that we need to meet up." So, we already had the meeting set up for Friday. So, this would be Thursday after that phone call. And uh that's kind of when it all all happened. And we've met probably four or five times before that. And he what's going to help? I was like, "I don't know. I don't know." And then uh he asked me that same question that morning. We're at a Starbucks in Long View. And uh he said, "What's going to help?" And the first word that came to my mouth was rehab. I never thought about it. Never mentioned it. Never said it. And after I said it, his eyes got huge. I was like, I can't get that back, can I? He's I didn't mean to say that. Yeah. He said, nope. And then next couple days, it was trying to find a place to go to. And was that the conversation or just No, it was finding somewhere. Like a lot of people when when they reach out to me, they're like, I want it. Um, but you know, I don't have insurance or I can afford it, you know. No, it went it was kind of the first place that somebody in our church uh recommended. Um, kind of got the ball rolling. On Tuesday, I had to talk to my work and talked to some other people and my I call him my sponsor, but he's just kind of a friend who's kind of gone through some of the same stuff before. I met with him, too, and just kind of got the ball rolling on different things. And we we met that morning, me and my sponsor did on Tuesday morning. And he goes, "Let's go now." I was like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Kids are starting school tomorrow. Let me get my affairs in order and then we'll leave." And then that Thursday morning, packed up and left. So we did 30 days, 29 and a half, actually. That's a story. That's a story. Why 29 and a half? Yeah, that so it's a it was a 45day program, but when I got there it was they changed it like four or five days before I got there from 30 to 45. So I had my mind that I was just going to do 30 and just leave, get my do my steps and not blow through them. But I mean I learned this stuff and it was in rehab was an interesting experience for me. But uh you did all 12 in rehab? I got to I got to my 12th step the day I was leaving and they wouldn't let me uh get out. They wouldn't let me finish. Brought somebody to Christ while in rehab. Yeah. Really? So we uh so I was we'd write back and forth cuz I didn't use the phone. I didn't call home for what 23 days. We were so upset. We waited on the phone call every single time. He never called. Well, why? I just think that I would have probably gone backwards. I don't think it my mindset right then and there was just focusing on me and it was kind of a selfish decision at that time but looking back I wish id have made those phone calls but I I did not think I was strong enough to get through those phone calls and was rehab close to home or did it was around Fort Worth so just so was a hall about 3 hours pretty close so it wasn't it wasn't terrible but it was I didn't want to get on the phone and I didn't want to talk around people either in the first the first 21 days or yeah, I think it's the first 21 days is when you after 21 days you can get your phone back or after certain steps are completed. So, I got through the steps, got my phone, called her, talked to the kids, they thought I was in jail. Um, it's still a funny story at the house, but I just wasn't in a good position mentally or or physically to call home. I know that you probably don't in the moment. That doesn't sound um fun, but I can appreciate that a little bit. I think it's important when we when we decide to make that effort to go to treatment, we have to unplug. Like I had to go to Florida for treatment, okay? And I didn't get to talk to my my two sons at the time. Um but I I was able to disconnect enough to say, "Okay, I I need to hit this life reset button." You know what I mean? And I need to pour in to what they're teaching me and telling me because if I don't do this for at least 21 days, which is the reason I think it's 21 days, we have 21 days of prayer and it's like where you can form this habit of new thoughts, new new ways of doing things. Um, so I can appreciate you doing that. Um, because when I got when I got to Florida, like I I completely disconnected, too. Like I I did call home on a collect car, but I called my parents. Um, and I don't remember calling the boys, which they were three and four. Um, but I can appreciate that. Uh, we wrote back and forth. I wrote the I wrote the kids letters before I left just kind of explaining that when daddy's leaving, when he gets back, we'll have a new dad. So, I didn't want to talk on the phone cuz I didn't want them to hear certain emotions come up and then them be worried. So, I wanted to get where I was get to a spot where I was I thought I was good. And the phone calls at first were with the kids were good. With her, it was not as good. But nurse Haley. Yeah. No, it was I had that 30-day mark and I was I knew it and I was she was supposed to come up the day after I left for a family thing. just kind of come in and they some I think my counselor up there told the staff that I was planning on leaving at day 30 so they canceled her family trip up there. Um well let's back up a little bit when you tried to leave at like day 13. No, I tried to leave at day two or three or four. So there was a day in there where he was trying to leave and the chaplain called me. I mean, I was getting all these phone calls and um I kind of had to reach out to our pastor. I don't even know who else was involved, but I just I was like, "He's not coming home." Like, "No, I he has to until y'all say that he's ready to come home." And I mean, putting the power in their hands, that's not right either. But no, I was like, "Two days hadn't changed anything. You're you're just homesick kind of thing." Which I never got to talk to him, but I topped up. I asked him, I was like, "Can I just type something up?" Go hand him the letter. I wish I could remember what all it said. I'm sure I have it. Got it. Okay. I'm like, "I'm sure I have it somewhere." But why' you want to go? Just didn't want to do it, honestly. Um, so in my line of work, you deal with a lot of different people. And I thought alcoholism didn't fit into the addiction side of it because I was seeing people in there who were meth addicts who were phenol addicts and I was like I do not fit in these people. Yeah, I get it. And then um so I'd see him walking around cuz I was in my little own hole for a little bit. I see him walking around and I was like man we are nothing alike. And after she sent that letter I was like well I got to stay now. So about day two or three in the classroom I looked around I was like we were exactly alike. So, and that was kind of a a judgmental moment in my on my end, just judging a book by its cover and not realizing the surface that the addiction or I guess this bringing the the addiction to the surface and realizing that it doesn't matter what you look like. I mean, addiction is addiction. And that's what I realized and I think that's kind of what helped push me through it and just realizing that addiction is comes in all forms and fashions. Pick and choose. Yeah, you're right. I mean, I I remember being in treatment with there was there was a 70 something year old woman in there. Yeah. You know, and then there was young guys and um what do you remember um after you made decision to stay? What was what was a moment of clarity and treatment where you're like after you figured out that all of you guys were the same? Can you pinpoint something that just stuck out that says I'm gonna be the one that makes it or step one powerless or remember what step one is again powerless over powerless. So once I cuz I thought I could beat it. I mean there was days where she'd be like you can't even go so many days without drinking. I'll be like I can watch. Yeah. Watch this. Hold my beard. Just kidding. And pull my tall boy. Yeah. That was And I'd do it for a day or two and I'm like I cannot. Yeah. I've got to go back. back. It didn't matter where we were, what we were doing. And once I realized that I was powerless over it, that changed my whole entire mentality. And and I kind of started diving into it a lot more and trying to figure out kind of just how we got how we got to that point. And I knew I I knew I couldn't stop it. And I knew rehab was probably the only way. Kind of like you were talking about just unplugging. It was good. I carry two phones, one personal, one for work. And when I get home, I'd bring work home, be on my phone, and I wouldn't be I wasn't present. So, I was there, but I wasn't fully there. Yeah. And not having a phone and just reading books and that was kind of a big thing is just getting into a normal habit, a habit of not being stuck on your phone, reading, praying, and just kind of I mean, I was just use the word unplugging. And that actually transformed everything from that point on. I think we're all guilty of that today. I mean, I I wish I could unplug sometimes, just be more present. I mean, we probably are really good at being present now, but everybody can be better, you know, but to have that kind of a stronghold. People don't really understand what addiction is when you talk about going to a treatment facility, but um the best way I explain it sometimes, and I've heard this on other podcasts, is, you know, go put your phone on a shelf and don't go touch it for 3 days. No, that's, you know, a lot of people they love their phone and the access they have to the world when we could just read a book or, you know, just sit and be present with family and things like that. So, kind of back to the 29 and 1/2 days. Oh, yeah. She got she got word I was wanting to leave and there was phone calls that were made where I said, "Hey, you can come up here on Friday, but I'm leaving with you. Like, you're coming up for the family day. I'm going home." And she said, "I'm not taking you home." And this was probably day 23, 24, somewhere in that area. And uh on day 28, I made up my mind. I'm like, I'm out. Started like kind of getting my stuff in order. Um talked to my counselor on day 29 and just said, I'm I'm out that morning. I think it was like a 9:00 session. And then she got the ball rolling. She kind of told staff about it that I was wanting to leave. pulled her off the the list on the Friday. I got a phone call from my pastor. We talked for probably 45 minutes and he goes, "I can't tell you what to do. You're a big boy." But he was he kind of heard the tr the change that was in my voice and just the way I was talking. And I don't think I was putting on a show or anything. I think I was just ready to be out, get back home, see the kids, see her, and kind of prove to everybody. Yeah. That I had changed. And so on Wednesday night she was at the church and she kind of told me this story. I guess it was the day you picked me up cuz even that day on Thursday whenever it was like 1:00 2:00 when the pastor was talking about hey she's not coming to get you like there was no way she was coming to get me at all. And I told I continued that cuz I felt and with him saying I don't need to be here anymore. I need to be with y'all. I need to show you that I've changed. I need to show the kids like I need to be there. And I kept saying like, "You're still you're still thinking that you are the powerful person. I need to do this. I need to do that. You're you're calling the shots." And that's not how it should be. Um if they don't think you're ready, like they do this for a living, which like I said, putting the power in their hands probably wasn't the best idea either once we put our stories together. So um you can tell them about the prayer or not cuz that kind of transforms. We'll go cuz I'm not sure what you're going to I'm not sure. But but just go back to treatment for just a second. So they switched it from 38 to 45 days or 20. So it went from 30 days to 45 and then they had a what was the push for the extra 15 days you think? Money. Oh hey treatment's expensive. Very expensive. I I don't know exactly what it was. They would tell people, "Oh, you're not ready to leave yet." Mhm. Well, I'm done with my 12 steps. I've I've got it I think I've got it figured out. No, you need to stay. you need to just keep reading and being involved. And they're big on tren going from just a participant to kind of leading circles like you'd have a little group that you do your nightly stuff with. And they said, "Hey, we want you to do this group." And I said, "Absolutely not." I said, "I'm not doing that." Well, we're going to make you. I said, "Well, they want you to lead the group, kind of lead your small group." and kind of there was probably four or five of us in each group and they had a kind of a leader who was over doing nightly stuff and making sure your boxes were checked for the day kind of if you if you're 10 stepping with somebody and all that go stuff. So I was just like I'm not here for y'all. I'm here for me. I don't need to I don't want to lead anybody. And looking back on it was kind of childish but that was just me being ready to be done. Yeah. like I was I was done. But I mean, I get that and we're not here when I'm trying to badmouth treatment at all, but it it's expensive. Mhm. Um and I can see they they want you to network and have a community because when you get out, they want you to know that you have that community to turn to. I still stay in contact with a few of the guys, but it's not every day. It's probably once a week or so. Just doing a little check-in with everybody. And that's good. Keep doing that. Um I think that's important. I went to treatment 15 years ago and um I read where some of them have passed away you know they talk about that you know you become that 10% you know and I wanted to be the 10% of people that make it you know reach 90% they want I want I knew when I was there that I this is expensive one um I didn't want to die and and I just wanted to be that next level dad you know that was my that was that That was my goal was to get out and and be present for my kids and and Haley and and just kind of restart life again. Yeah. And he always says break the generational curse. He uses that all the time. Yeah. Yeah. I' I was listening to a podcast one day. I can't remember who it was on your podcast, but I can't remember what guest and it said be the generational breaker, not the generational language. Yeah. And that kind of stuck with me. It was one of those it was one of those moments where I went that makes sense. That's why you do what you do. Yeah, you brought the podcast. You You've been listening to this podcast, you said since he went to treatment. Yeah. I found you while he was gone and I just kind of caught up on everything because I'm like, what can what can I do to learn more about this? What can I do to try to I know I'll never know how he feels or, you know, what he's struggling with or going through except on my end of it, but I wanted to know more and learn more. Yeah. And so, well, I appreciate that. I mean, I really do. And and that's another reason why I wanted you guys to come on is because I wanted our listeners and viewers to see that you got something from the podcast. People oft ask why why are you doing a podcast? And it's to give you guys a platform. Yeah. Uh to be young couples or older couples, generational, whatever. But people need to see what recovery looks like. Like you guys you look very well put together. You have a wonderful family, but you're just real people that had that struggle, but it didn't define who you are. and all that darkness and whatever uh that came with that. But you you made a decision to do something, you stuck to it, and you're on the other side of it. Now, we said this before we started recording, you still deal with life stuff, right? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's manageable. It's manageable now. Well, he's not like on the edge. You know, we used to say we'd walk on eggshells. It's like, what's going to be the the tip that, you know, makes him fall over? What what is it going to be? And so I never I couldn't communicate with him this way all the time. Um a lot of it he didn't want to listen to or he'd shut me down. Um so being able to now not have to walk on eggshells and the kids too. They I mean multiple times I'd be like what's wrong with daddy? I'm like I don't know. You just continue being you. You know you just continue doing your thing and daddy will work through it. Nurse Haley because I didn't know. I mean I don't know what's wrong with them either. I don't know. And so now I tell him I'm like, "Take a deep breath." You know? Yeah. Cuz I mean, we're still we're still have the same DNA. We just eliminated something that kind of drove our our thinking or, you know, our actions. My wife tells me that, too. I mean, I wasn't um I met my wife when I was three years clean, but she still sees transformative things in me even to today. Like my temper has changed. Like I mean, I had a a bad temper. Um, but it's it's just uh not progressed, it's declined. Uh, and it's from maybe getting old. I don't know. But it's I also blame it on my recovery. Like I just you just feel better every day. Even 15 years into it, even a year into it, you're going to feel on leaning over you all the time now. Like that's kind of how I felt like he constantly had that weight on him of the addiction and the alcohol and when's my next drink or how am I going to hide it this time or what whatever that is. Now he doesn't he feels free. I'm speaking for you. But and we never did say but what why did you get out at the 29.5 days? Oh, okay. I do remember what you were going to say. So um you know I continued to say I'm not going to get him. He's making this decision. Well, then I felt convicted in that, thinking, well, how am I any different from him than now? I'm the one trying to say no, I'm not going to get him. So, I was trying to be all powerful. So, I was sitting there. I was actually at the kitchen table. Um, and I just remember I had my Bible open. I'm like, you know, God, you're just you're really just going to have to slap me in the face with this one because I'm over here thinking this isn't what he needs to do. He's over here thinking it is what he needs to do. Well, it's not about what we think, it's about what you think. Like, what what is it? What can you know? What can you show me? I know everyone's like, "Show me a sign." But I'm just You got to slap me in the face with this because I'm I'm real strong on how I feel over here, and he's real strong on how he felt about he's leaving. So, um, I hadn't talked to him the rest of the day. I guess they took me off. They wouldn't let him call me. So, I was just talking from uh between our pastor and his wife and they're talking to Todd and then I get a phone call and it was from your from one of our friends, the best man in our wedding. And he said, "Todd's out." And I was said, "What? What do you mean Todd's out?" And he hadn't even called me yet cuz he was probably scared what I was going to say. Oh, I was trying to get a ride. That's why I asked how far away this place was. people don't understand that you have to get as far away from home as possible. Yeah. Well, they drove packed his bag up and they drove him and they dropped him off at a Greyhound bus station in downtown Fort Worth. In downtown Fort Worth, right beside a bar. Yeah. So, my buddy, I told him, I said, "Hey, this is where I'm going. I need you to find me a spot. I've got to be here for at least 3 hours till somebody come get me." So, he sends me this hotel and I walk in and it's got a massive bar area, huge bar area. I mean, it's twice this size in here. And I'm walking in, I got my rolling suitcase on my box. I just kind of look up. I mean, I look up to this guy. I said, "You've got a sense of humor." Cuz I mean, this is the first place I go. And he calls me probably 20 minutes later. He said, "Get out. Get out. There's a massive bar." I said, "It's fine." I walked right through it. I'm sitting over here. I'm trying to find a way home and I get a call from uh my pastor and he goes, "She's on the way up there." I was like, "Oh, this is not going to be good." I was like, "If anybody's going to get him, it's going to be me cuz this is my slap in the face." You know that he dropped off in a Greyhound station. I just couldn't believe it. So, I you know, that's what I said, too. I was like, "Okay, I asked for a slap in the face and here it is." He said, "I don't know what changed over the last 3 hours, but she's she's packed up and she's on the way." And I was like, "Thank goodness." What was it like when you when you saw him? I was kind of scared. I I didn't really know what to think, but for the first time in years, probably since we started dating, there was life in his eyes. That's good. Yeah. It was It was so amazing cuz, you know, I told you I'd look into him and it was almost like an empty soul. And then um I pulled up to this hotel and I thought, "Oh my goodness." And I got him and he was alive, more alive than I've ever seen him. It was but ready to go home. Ready to go home. We facetimed the kids and they're like, "Dad, they were so excited to see him." Fantastic. The transformation back home was was a challenge in itself. Yeah. Coming. The ride home was a challenge in itself. That's so how how long was the ride and what did you guys talk about? It was three hours and we stopped halfway I think and got pizza and we talked out there for a while but it was just a lot of were you telling the truth here? Were you telling the truth here? Like how how many drinks was it? and she just wanted to know how bad it was because she had heard. But I think she wanted to hear it out of my mouth and just say, "Okay," and just kind of get everything out on the table because once he once you do that, then I can heal. You know, if if I'm constantly thinking, "Was he telling the truth about this or he lied about this? Was he lying about that?" That continues the cycle in my head. And now, I mean, we don't we don't talk hardly talk about it unless it's, you know, in a good way. It's not there's no hard feelings. Like I'm so proud of his accomplishment and where he is today. I could never imagine going back and holding any of that against him. A lot of people ask, are you not scared that he's going to relapse? And I'm like, I don't feel fear the relapse. I fear the old Todd demeanor, anger, hatred coming back. That's what I fear. not not a relapse because and I don't know how to explain that but that's no sense to me I mean people that are listening they they may not understand that but it's you love the same guy you just don't love the old um personality yeah and personalities can change but the guy can't right so um all right so before we before we like really land the plane I want to hear from both of you on these last 363 days. What was the the the best moment um outside of coming home? What's been the best moment in your marriage and it and your with with your family that you can define from your point of view? Todd, go first. I know you said not coming home, but I think that was a big thing seeing my kids for the first time. Um getting the hugs and just the tears. Um I think we're more open about things. It's not will we have a better line of communication between each other. Um if things come up, we try to address them right then and there and not hold a grudge for a couple days and cuz that could just yeah snowball and get worse. So 10th stepping it's easier. It's easier now. I mean I they were talking about 10 stepping. I was like that doesn't make any sense. I'm never going to use that. And I use it on a day-to-day basis all the time. So, and just for people that are listening, the 10th, when we say 10th steps, for people that do decide to go through a 12step program, it's where we we quickly admit our wrongs, you know, especially as quickly as we can um to those we hurt. Yeah. I think uh just the marriage that I don't want to say I wasted for 13 years, but it's gotten a whole lot better. Yeah. And I think it has to do with just being vulnerable and uh and just being a team on that end, especially raising the kids and our work schedules get a little hectic out every now and then. But we prioritize church on Sundays, Wednesday nights, and then I volunteer at the prison ministry at a at a uh a prison in East Texas with the church. So getting in there with guys that I probably could have put in there, um, and seeing life change in them and actually praying for them and just being around people who have the same kind of addictive behavior that I have and just seeing that they are people just like I am and I could have easily been in their shoes in that seat. um kind of kind of humbles you a little bit when you go in there and you pray for those guys and you see them weeping and you see them get baptized by what we have 48 get baptized that one Sunday. It's just the life change that that you never expected to see. But once you actually get out of once you get out of the addiction process, it's a whole lot easier to to be happy with little things in life. I think that's a big thing. And and you're right, you could have easily been in that. Absolutely. I I worked at a jail for a short period of time. I I really didn't like it. And then I spent some time in that same jail and I had to go in protective custody. Not because I was some big time cop or something. I wasn't I was just I was a what you call it? OC or whatever or CO. And um but I I got locked up for DUI at the same jail where I worked at, you know. I mean, it could have easily happened and by the grace of God, it didn't because there's no telling what would happen during those times. I mean, it was pretty it was pretty rough for a while, but the last 363 has been amazing. I mean, like we talked about earlier, we've had two kids get baptized. That was going to be my answer. Yeah. And I told actually text my pastor yesterday and I said going actually surrendering everything over to God and actually going to rehab getting my help. If I would have known that life on the other side would have looked like this, I'd have done it 20 years ago. Mhm. You don't know. You don't know. But you kind of made we actually have I guess you could say street cred when it comes to talking about marriage and uh addiction and it kind of gives us I mean kind of like your platform. you actually use your your your addiction for good. And we ours, I think, is getting that way cuz I think this is going to get out to a lot more people than we kind of Oh, yeah. kind of thought it was going to go into. And I think just being open and honest and uh and just being real with people is is going to is going to help. Yeah, that's that's a perfect answer. And you guys will I mean got that's the reason you went through that Todd is because you're going to have this testimony now where you will use that story that you've told here and you'll you you'll redefine it you know you'll shrink it lengthen it whatever but people need to hear it there's going to be guys your age that are living the same kind of life maybe a different amount of kids and a and a different wife that doesn't have the nurse bedside personality that she gave her an ult she she gave him an ultimatum long ago you know so um Haley what was you going to baptism, I guess. Is there anything else? Well, that really the baptism story I guess that I told you before we started that that's kind of to know that we were living this lifestyle that was I mean crumbling under our feet basically. Um barely keep our heads afloat but yet in this you know almost a year we've two of our children have been baptized. So, we are somewhat, you know, we're beginning to live our life right now. I feel like we're definitely putting God first and our kids see that. The kids see the transformation. And, you know, when they say, "Look at what daddy's done." I'm like, "Look what look what God did through daddy because it it's not him. It's not me." We could have never done that on our own. Yeah. You know, it's God. So, I tried to I tried to show them that and everything. Um, and praying with them, of course, that's a huge thing. But just just to know that, you know what, one week out of rehab, you baptized our daughter. And then just what's today's Monday? Monday. Yes. Just yesterday, I baptized our son. So, that's amazing. Y I'm I'm gonna throw you uh one curveball since you since he kind of answered your answer for you. Yeah. If you were going to look at the camera and talk to a supporting spouse, specifically in this situation, females, um what would be a word of encouragement um that you would give them? Cuz some people get lost in the like we said, the enablement and the support um what what bit of encouragement would you give someone? I would say remember the person that you married. Um because during all the struggles and everything, I just kept going back to this is this is not the man that God designed for me. You know, that the enemy has taken hold of his life and we've got to get him back. So, I would really just say remember who who you married and the heart of the person that you married because he's still there somewhere. Yeah, that's good. You're so patient. Oh, well, not always. Yeah, not always. Well, I do want to say um I'm so proud of both of you. I know this is our first time meeting, but we've talked through email. Um and uh I read through your story again this morning before we we got here, but I am very proud of both of you, especially you, Todd, for for doing what you've done and reshaping your family and you have become a generational breaker. So, um so yeah, thank you guys so much for coming on the podcast and hang out with us. Thank you for having us. Yeah. [Music] [Music]