We Almost Lost Our Marriage to Our Son's Addiction | Jeff & Pam McFadden's Story
When your child is battling addiction, how do you love them without losing yourself—or your marriage? Jeff and Pam McFadden share the painful journey of watching their son spiral into opioid and heroin addiction, the ways they unknowingly enabled him, and the difficult boundaries that ultimately changed everything. Together, they reflect on how addiction nearly destroyed their marriage, what helped them find unity again, and why surrendering their son to God became one of the hardest and most important decisions they ever made. No family is prepared for addiction, but no family is beyond hope. Jeff and Pam's story is a reminder that healing often begins when we choose faith over fear.
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Thanks for joining me on the Recovery About podcast. I'm really excited about today's episode. I'm going to sit with Jeff and Pam, how they became enablers
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to their son who's in addiction, how they carried that burden, but then they're also going to share with us the balance between enablement and support and how they went from being enablers to
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supporters. It's a hard conversation because parents that that reach out to us and ask us to help often just get lost in that. So, this is going to be a
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really powerful episode, a real episode, and one that I want you to just really just listen to what these parents have to say.
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Jeff and Pam, you guys are parents of someone that's in recovery. And we're going to talk about that because we talk about it a lot on the podcast as people in addiction and recovery.
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One thing that I really want to hear about is um you said that you almost lost your relationship, your marriage because of
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the fine line between enablement and support. Can we talk about that? Can you if if you're going to tell a story to to
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all the listeners out there, all five of you. Um, but if you're going to tell a story and and you wanted to impact people and you want them to bring
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you along with you, can you can you take us back to the beginning of where your your son's addiction started and then when you knew that there was bigger issues inside of that?
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Sure.
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[laughter]
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Um, and just Yeah, I guess if I really want to tell a story, people have a a premonition of what or thought of what really addiction
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is and it's picking these guys that don't have love or whatever. We were an all-American family.
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Mhm. Man, I coached both my boys in baseball, both my boys in basketball, both my boys in football, soccer two years, one one year was terrible the next. So, that didn't last long. But through their life, I was their coach.
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Their mom was the the team mom. I mean, uh, we were so into it, man. Domino's gave us a point one year at Christmas.
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Really cool. Yeah. We thought it was We don't get into delivery and they came just said, "Thank you for all the pizzas you order for the year." So, you know, we was that all [snorts] American family. We had the pool, table, game
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room, inviting the neighborhood kids over. Everything was great. Were all the kids involved in in addiction or was just just Brandon? Just Brandon. Just Brandon.
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And Brandon doesn't mind us saying his name because Brandon and his wife part of his testimony. Yes. They've been on the podcast before. Yes. Exactly.
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Um so we're proud of you, Brandon. Yep. Yes.
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Very much so. Uh so everything was going good and then Brandon got really wasn't
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I won't even say the wrong crowd, but it was the wrong crowd because there's a lot of kids from our neighborhood and it's sad. Some of them's gone to pass on and then some of them are still around
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in recovery themselves. And I don't really know of any of that's still out.
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Most of them, a lot of them come to church here. So, it's been kind of cool. But, uh, I guess it started with him.
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Um, man, probably 15, 16 years old. Typical pot drinking. Um, it probably followed
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his brother's footsteps a little bit on that sense of it, but then with Brandon, it became a lot more. It became opiates and, uh, fentanyl and heroin and but that was
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kind of later on in years. But um sometimes people want to um wonder if it's hereditary. Did does that come Do you guys have any past on either side of your family?
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No. Brandon [clears throat] was the first. Yes.
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Now I have had some uncles that party. I mean I guess they did but they never had not to the extent of what Brandon went through.
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I mean and we as a couple I mean we didn't you know we didn't I mean we would have an occasional drink every now and then.
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Yeah. But there's a difference between being able to handle it versus it taking a best of it. Right. Yeah. Now, I probably could have went down that path if it wasn't
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for her because I was pretty close to I mean we do crazy things. Yeah. Crazy right at the marriage, too.
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But, uh, you know, well, one, we both got saved and went to church, raised Brandon and Will in church. Yeah.
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So, I mean, they were raised in church, like I said, all American family. And tell me about you guys. How did you guys meet? Oh, that's a whole another story. Well, just give me a quick glimpse.
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We met actually before high school. Yeah. You were 14, I was 16.
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Yeah. I went to Curtis and I lived right down near Lake Mstead.
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And my dad was a police and he told me, he said, "I don't care what you do around this area, but you never walk through the projects, which was right
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behind us, Homemstead Homes." He said, "Never go if I catch you in there." And I'm like, "Okay." Well, one day we had something from school. We were walking
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home and I told my friends, I said, "Let's take the shortcut. let's go through here. And we walked throughstead
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Homes and he was standing there with his friends and he said, "Hey, don't you know that pickup line? Don't we know y'all from somewhere?" And I'm like, all
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my friends like, "No, y'all don't know us." And I had I didn't really know him, but I knew of him. And I said, "Yeah." I
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said, "I [laughter] think I I think I do know you." I said, "Is your name Jeff?" And he said, "Yes, how did you know?" I said, "I just I thought I knew you." So, we just kept
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walking cuz my daddy told me not to talk to anybody on this.
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Yeah, that's right. I'm not even supposed to be in here. So, I got to get out of here. So, um then after that, oh, I went I will admit I went home. I don't
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know if it was the next day. I called I called him his phone his um rule she broke from her dad. He'd killed
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the number was in the book and I called him. The book being the phone book. Yes.
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[laughter]
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And I called him and he I said, "Hey." I said, "This is Pam that you know was walking through the process." This is a 14y old girl doing this. Yeah.
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[laughter] I was Yeah. She might have been a little younger than that. No, I was probably 14. She was probably 11 or 12. No, I was at the high school.
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No, you was in ele You was in junior high cuz you went to high school, right?
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Yeah. So, yeah. So, I did call and um then he said, "Yeah." He said, "Um, that was you." And then we just started
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talking. Well, make a long story short, we um in 10th grade I left Curtis went to Richmond
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and um he went to Richmond, too. And we he got we were wind up being good friends, setting each other up with friends for
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days with our friends and um then he got me a job working at Arby's and just one day the prom was coming up and um he said,
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"Hey, why don't we go to the prom together?" And I said, "Okay, let's go.
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Let's do it." So, we went to the prom together and then on the way he said, "You know what? We're such good friends.
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We stay together all the time." He said, "Why don't me and you just start dating each other?" And I'm like, "Okay. All right. Let's do it." Done. So, that was it.
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And when was that? How long ago was that?
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83 83 84 somewhere around there.
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That's a while, y'all. I've been together. Been married 40 years in May. Wow. Congratulations.
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Now, I told my mom the day that she called me. I got off the phone and I said, "I just talked to the girl." Well, actually, when I came home, I said, "I just met the girl I'm going to marry." Crazy. I know people don't believe it
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that, but I did. My mom will tell you she was still alive. But, uh, she's like, "What?" Because that was the first transitioning from buddies to a girl
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that she heard from me. So, she I told her that day. I said, "Yeah." And I think Dayton was just different back then, too. I mean, not like you guys are, you know, Mayberry, you know, taught me how to drive a stick shift.
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Yeah. So, I mean, but you started out as friends, too. And then like, um, I Marty even mentioned it today. people are just uh intimidated by love or or
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moving into just why don't you get married or like you why don't we just date you know I I couldn't be out there today and I feel bad for folks that are out there
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trying to figure it out but yes no no but okay so move on you you guys met and and we kind of got a glimpse into that and then um how soon into your marriage
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did you start having kids and and is it just she was pregnant when we got married and then so y'all have just two boys yes two boys two boys all right
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and who's the oldest Will Will's the oldest. Okay. So, walk us through. You coached and you got this great friendship that became a marriage.
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Will comes along. Brandon comes along.
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You're coaching and then you knew something was not I'm not going to say off, but you knew that we're not dumb.
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Like I I've got boys that are younger.
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It's it's almost like a right of passage. People feel like some parents get lucky in the way they raise their kids and they just they they either scare them enough or them enough or
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preach to them enough or they they're scared to death of it. But some of them don't.
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Um because we parent the exact same way, but Will just happen to be different than Brandon, right? Yeah.
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So tell us um you said you kind of knew that things were going to or were different or you saw some things in that teenage [clears throat]
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Will was different than Brandon. Um I think Will just knew where where to stop me now.
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Yeah, they both party [snorts] pretty hard and some of that was our fault. We went [clears throat] to lake every weekend. Yeah.
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Back in that day. So they had a house to theelves and you know like I said we had the game room with the pool table and the music and all that. So
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really and I'm I'm not blaming ourselves for any of it because we just was doing what we thought was right. Okay, we're going to Lake. Y'all are older. We trust you. Here's our house. Uh we've seen a
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ton of signs that should have raised red flags why it didn't. [clears throat] Um, I don't know. I mean, you come home and you see back then the big [snorts] computer. You
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walk downstairs and there's this girl's face in the computer and you see Brandon Land on the couch behind it, you know, about Yeah.
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And you just I don't know. Just at that point, you're kind of like they're just kids being kids, right? And I guess at fourth sense, we may have tried to be
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their friends a little more than what we should have in the beginning. Yeah.
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Uh until addiction took place and then we came.
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It's tough though. I mean Oh, yeah.
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because that's how some people want to parent. Like I want to parent that way sometimes. I want to be the boy's buddy, but then I then I kind of blur the line
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a little bit when they're like, "Oh, am I talking to my buddy or my daddy?" You know what I mean? Exactly.
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So, I get it. I totally get it. Keep going.
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But, um, so he uh I think what really started taking place was he got a job with the the union. Um,
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what started a lot of it for us was uh he had used her truck. Uh, had a wreck one night. We got a call. He said his
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back was hurt. And this is where I believe a lot of it took place because he was already dabbling in it. But, you know, of course, back then the the percoet and whatever the doctors would
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just write it out. And so, he told me he had a hurt back. The man gave him a 30-day supply. And uh I just believe that's when Brandon realized, okay, I can open up shop. I
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can sell high, buy low. And um the place he was working at at the time to, you know, they did drug tests,
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mainly marijuana, but if you had an excuse, you could you could take the opiates, you could, you know, you could take the percoet or whatever for your back that was supposedly hurting. Yeah.
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But um long as you had the script for it.
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Yeah. Yep. And then um I've done that.
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Yeah. [laughter] Um and his brother Will started telling us things that were happening. He said, "I want you to know, you know, Brandon was passed out at the gas station the other day. He should have got a DUI or
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whatever." He said, and he kind of let us in on things that were going on. And so finally we one day we just asked Brandon. He said, "No, we need to talk
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to you." And we said, "Uh, I we we believe you have a problem." Of course, the holding denial thing goes in. And then of course we talked to him again.
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And I'll never forget the one day when we finally said, "Hey, things have got to change, man. You you have a problem.
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You're lying to us. You're stealing from us. You know, all this going on." And he just broke down in our den and just hit his knees and said, "I I have a problem." How old was he then?
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Probably 18, maybe. Yeah, probably around 18. Yeah.
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Now, when when parents maybe listen to this podcast um and and they're putting yourself in your shoes, what kind of
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conversations are you guys having with each other behind closed doors in the bedroom about the situation? Um and and
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who who says, "I'll be the one to to have the conversation or did you both go into it together?"
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Together. We went into it together. Um, I will say I was more the enabler. Um, when it went, you know, further into it.
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I mean, I I I was in denial myself. Mhm.
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Yeah. Yeah. And I was like it it got me to a point to where I felt like I was crazy
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really. And I just I wanted to just get in the bed and not go to work and do anything, you know, because as parents,
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we're used to fixing our children's problems, you know, and this right here, I couldn't do anything about it, you know, and I was like lost, like what am I I we got to do something.
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Well, then Jeff had kept telling me, he said, "Pam, you've got to let him go.
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You've got to stop. You've got to quit giving him money when he wants money.
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You've got to tell me everything." because there was things I would keep from Jeff and um that I shouldn't have
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[clears throat] and I would give it, you know, he would come up, he'd say, "Mom, I need $20. We're all going to the movie." Back in my mind, I wanted to believe that he was going to the movie.
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But then I was thinking, is he really going to the movie or if I don't give him this $20, is he going to go steal or is he going to, you know, get this money some way? So, I would give him the money.
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Yeah. And then because we didn't have life 360 then I watch where the boys go now.
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No we did not. So I didn't I didn't know but I just felt like trust you know. Yeah. Yeah. And like I said I
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just kept thinking well is he really doing something or is it just you know but I knew I knew back in my mind you know that he did have a
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problem and Jeff said you've got to let him hit bottom. You've got to to let him let him hit bottom. That's easier said than done.
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Yes. True confession.
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Yeah, it was kind of easy for me because I could say I would give her I was playing that hard
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role, but deep inside I was really fake because I would say to her, [snorts] "You don't need to be doing that." And she's like, "Well, he's" and I was like,
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"Do it. Go ahead. If that's what you want to do, do it." And then she would do it. But then I could use that later on to say, and this is probably where
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our marriage started struggling. Well, I told you what's You told me to give. I knew you was going to do it anyway. That was my scapegoat. Yeah.
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And [snorts] that way you didn't have to handle it. No. No. Exactly. So, let me ask you a question, Miss Pam.
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If a mom is listening right now, if a mama wants to listen to this and they hear that, can you give us some examples?
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Because [clears throat] again, I said this before. There's there's a huge gray line between the difference between enablement and support. What was a list of name three
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things that you feel like you were en what made you enable? You gave him money.
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Gave him money. Um, I would actually keep things from Jeff that that I shouldn't have kept from him.
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Um, what would be another one?
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Oh, you had a cell phone. I mean, you were paying his bill. Oh, yeah. I paid his cell phone bill.
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Mhm. I would um take care of his cell phone bill because I felt like on the days that
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I couldn't get him, you know, even though half the time he'd never answered the phone, but I knew he had that cell phone if
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I was just praying and hoping, okay, he's got that phone, he'll call me, you know, on this day or he'll call me. I'll hear hear from him just to make sure he's alive.
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Kind of like a lifeline.
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Yeah, I can see that. It was almost like uh well because what was the alternative? I could let him go with no way of contacting me. Yeah. Yeah.
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You know what I mean? Yes.
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Or and I'm talking to myself right now. Yeah.
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Do I just say no, you can't go and make him stay and then I have to live with or be with that all night long. It's almost like Oh, it's a roll of the dice.
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Yeah. And it's almost like I got to get rid of this because I just I've had so much stress from the day. Yeah. It's one of those thing I got to worry about.
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Yeah. you know, and and I get it.
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Um, so this was he's late teens or whatever.
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Um, and you guys start keeping these things from yourself. When when did that reveal itself? Like when did you guys start to find out or figure each other out that Jeff knew that he wasn't
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sharing as much information or I guess tell me Jeff, you you talked before we started like you started doing things
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for him that you're like you questioned yourself on it. Oh, all through the whole addiction. the whole I mean I think what started well at that point
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that's that when the first time that he admitted to it of course you know you take him to the clinic and they put him on suboxin and man we were high-fiving
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calling the family hey he's healed man they've got this medicine that's good for him you know it's going to take all the so much of that we didn't you know
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we didn't have a clue the roller coaster we were fixing to be on no clue at all but um all he was doing was selling that yeah slowly
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suboxin he'd sell it he weren't taking it what does it Again, [clears throat] that's the t supposedly takes a craving away for the drug.
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Um, and his drug of choice, the drug itself. Yeah. Yeah. Started with like opioids. Yeah.
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Percoets, heroin, fitness, xanax, and stuff like that.
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Yeah. Brandis Brandon wasn't prejudice at all. Yeah.
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I think later on it went into the heroin and yeah, just opiates. Um but I think the turning point for us was I mean it was
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it's just it's this massive roller coaster ride but our marriage started to crumble. Um we stopped talking to each
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other. We were consumed with this. I mean our whole family was even his brother was somewhat consumed with it who has been his rock and somewhat of
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our rock too. Um because he often you know this the sibling or your other kids often get denied or pushed to the side.
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We got a problem over here and that's not fair for them either. But we went to a uh a Christian counselor uh cuz it was not we were not in a good place at all.
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I mean um barely speaking if we did it was about Brandon. If it wasn't about Brandon we were arguing and this was not Brandon's fault. This
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is a a fault of just even us early on you know teen pregnancy not you know knowing who God was kind of getting away
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from God and that whole deal. But uh at that point when we went to the Christian counselor uh she went a couple times, I went a couple times and he gets us
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together and he said uh he starts off with her. He said, "Well, Pam and I'm like, "Yes, I knew it was her." You know, he tells her, he says, "You got to understand." And he gives
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us, you know, scripture. He's the husband. He's the dad. And you have to allow him to be daddy. He's the head of
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the household. He should comfort with you. But he is the head of the household. And I'm like, man, God is so good. You know, this is so cool. He led us to the right guy.
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And then he turns to me again and he says, "Hey, man. I want to let you know that Pam needs to be mom and you have to become discerned with
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what that is, when it's okay for her to be mom." But of course, you guys have got to get together on this. But she's the mama.
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And so we walked out of there. We didn't even drive there together. We drove separately. And I'm mad because I'm thinking about all this money we just spent on these [laughter]
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five [snorts] lessons and this guy's just telling me she needs to be mom and I need to let her be mom and I need to be dad and she should let me be dad and we even joked about it on the elevator
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on the way down. Well, I guess you get to be mom kind of deal. But later on in those weeks with prayer and I think one of the biggest things we started doing
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together after that is we started praying together, you know, and I hear a lot of people say, "Oh yeah, we pray." No, praying together. Uh I prayed for Brandon, she prayed for Brandon there.
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There was moments we prayed together.
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Oh, dear God, please let us know where he's at. but not true prayer. And that kind of started us together. But then it just kind of hit us a few weeks later.
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Uh and luckily this guy went on vacation for a little bit so I didn't have to spend more money to go back. And then I realized, no, I've got to let her be mom. She's got to love him. That's her.
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You know, moms are different and I get it. Um and then she kind of started coming to me little by little and saying, "All right, what do you thinking and
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that's when it started opening up for me and her to kind of uh I'll tell anyone that's dealing with an addict, you got to fix you first. Yeah. And in that
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sense, we were one because we were bound together by God.
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Then we had to fix us. And in order for us to fix us, we had to start communicating. Yeah.
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And honestly, I'm not the best. Well, especially back then, man, I was a hotthead. I had a lot of anger at life.
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I was not the easiest person in the world to approach. Um, I got a my best buddy now says I must be medicated because I'm a totally different person.
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I don't get upset. April and my other daughter-in-law.
20:22
20 minutes, 22 seconds
Also comes with age. Yeah, probably. I feel a transition in my heart.
20:25
20 minutes, 25 seconds
They've never seen me. Well, I think April seen me lose my temper one time, but I don't lose my temper anymore. I mean, that but we had but that was the
20:32
20 minutes, 32 seconds
beginning and it was as a joke and you know of mom and dad, but it's real.
20:39
20 minutes, 39 seconds
Yeah. Moms are moms and there's a fine line that mom needs to take. But then dads have got to set boundaries. And then once uh there was a night that came
20:48
20 minutes, 48 seconds
and you can tell that if you want to where um it's like I said before, I kind of I lied. I let her be, you know, the weak
20:56
20 minutes, 56 seconds
one and I was the strong one. You ought to. But deep inside I was praying to God that she wouldn't give up. Yeah.
21:00
21 minutes
Because I didn't want to give up. But I could play that role to family, friends, and everybody else. I was the old bad dude, you know. No, he just needs to quit. He's a, you know, words that I
21:09
21 minutes, 9 seconds
don't want to use, you know, he's use pray about it later.
21:13
21 minutes, 13 seconds
He's not, you know, he he's a piece of crap, you know, and he wasn't. I loved him. So, I let her on that. But then there was a night if you want to tell by that.
21:22
21 minutes, 22 seconds
Well, let me ask you this real or just say this real quick because what I heard when you said that after going to that counselor is what you didn't mention. He
21:29
21 minutes, 29 seconds
didn't mention or she didn't mention Brandon. They reminded you that your spouse comes first.
21:35
21 minutes, 35 seconds
Yes. And that's important. A lot of people forget that. They just um they put their relationship to the side and they they miss the order. It's
21:44
21 minutes, 44 seconds
not like I'm perfect this. I'm not a marriage expert. I'm surely not a um a recovery expert, but I I really love
21:53
21 minutes, 53 seconds
this stuff. Uh I love hearing that people's recovery uh fixes more than just themselves. Fixes the whole family, you know. But you guys are remember that
22:02
22 minutes, 2 seconds
it's it's your relationship with the Lord as you understand him and then your relationship with each other then your kids and people get lost in that cuz mas often want to baby the boy.
22:10
22 minutes, 10 seconds
Yeah. Daddy's often want to baby the girl. So we had to fix us. Yeah. But you got to work on you first.
22:15
22 minutes, 15 seconds
So yeah. So tell us Pam about that night.
22:18
22 minutes, 18 seconds
Well, I'd heard from the counselor. I knew what to do. I'd heard from Jeff. He said, "Pam, you just have to to let him go. He's got to go. He's got to get out
22:27
22 minutes, 27 seconds
of here." cuz every time we'd come back from the lake, he would have pawned guns and that, you know, we spent so much
22:34
22 minutes, 34 seconds
getting stuff out of pond. So, I was sit I got home from work one day and I was sitting in front and front of the house and I said, "I'm going to call a guy
22:42
22 minutes, 42 seconds
where he was um Cliff called Cliff on the phone. I said, "Cliff," I said, "Let me just ask you um what do you think I'm
22:50
22 minutes, 50 seconds
supposed to do? You know, I'm I just need somebody else's opinion." And then he said, "Pam, you better get him out of your house now."
22:58
22 minutes, 58 seconds
Now, when people hear that, you don't care where he goes, just get him. I mean, he said, "How do you kick somebody out?"
23:04
23 minutes, 4 seconds
[snorts]
23:04
23 minutes, 4 seconds
Yeah. He told me, he said, "Adicts are resilient.
23:09
23 minutes, 9 seconds
They'll find a way to figure out their life." We had just gotten to that point saying, "You know what? He's manipulated us enough that where I don't care where you go, you're a grown man want for one.
23:19
23 minutes, 19 seconds
And even God tells you, I mean, a man should grow, you know, rise up and and to leave the Cleveland mom, dad. So, man up.
23:25
23 minutes, 25 seconds
Yep. And, you know, all these nights that he's not coming home, he's finding somewhere to stay.
23:31
23 minutes, 31 seconds
And it it's not it's easier said than done. You know, it's not just, oh, we're going to do it. But, I mean, uh, cuz like I said, I was still kind of playing that role. But then,
23:39
23 minutes, 39 seconds
but he did tell me he said, you've got to let him go. You know, you've got to.
23:42
23 minutes, 42 seconds
So he had went he was working out of town. Well, he wound up going out of town. I forgot where he was.
23:51
23 minutes, 51 seconds
Just wound up in Columbia in a bad place.
23:53
23 minutes, 53 seconds
Yeah. In a bad place. And he called that night. It was like 2:00 in the morning.
23:58
23 minutes, 58 seconds
And he said, "Mom, um, I need you to come and get me." And I said, "Okay, this is where I got
24:06
24 minutes, 6 seconds
to be tough. I don't know. Something just hit me." And I said, "I've got to be tough tonight." I said, "Brandom, I love you more than anything."
24:15
24 minutes, 15 seconds
I said, "But you've got to find your own way home. I can't come and get you, and I really
24:23
24 minutes, 23 seconds
don't want to hear from you unless it's something good. I don't want to hear anymore about it, about where you are
24:30
24 minutes, 30 seconds
and what has happened." I said, "Because I'm tired." Cuz you you're carrying the weight of whatever that burden might be. Yes.
24:39
24 minutes, 39 seconds
What was his respon? Did he did you floor him or did he did he get mad? What happened?
24:43
24 minutes, 43 seconds
He didn't say anything. I said, "I want you to know that I love you more than anything, but I don't want you to call me again." And I hung up.
24:52
24 minutes, 52 seconds
That hit hard. That was an emotional ride. Oh my gosh. But that's where we came together.
24:57
24 minutes, 57 seconds
I hung up that phone and I cried and I kept thinking, I'm I'm going to get I'm picking my phone up. I'm going to go go get him. But um I didn't. How old was he?
25:05
25 minutes, 5 seconds
I didn't.
25:06
25 minutes, 6 seconds
He was probably seven. No, he was older than that then because he was he was probably maybe 19 or 20.
25:12
25 minutes, 12 seconds
So he could he could he could go out and get a job and do things on his own. Yes. He was already working. Yeah. Jobs. Yeah.
25:17
25 minutes, 17 seconds
So it was like he was still high school or whatever, right? Matter of fact, he'd been through a couple of different sober livingings.
25:23
25 minutes, 23 seconds
I mean uh he'd been to Bridges of Hope, he'd been to the Health Foundation.
25:28
25 minutes, 28 seconds
Um Brandon's got his whole world map. I mean, you know, he tried them all. But uh at that night is the night that it
25:37
25 minutes, 37 seconds
kind of hit me because I'm sitting there.
25:40
25 minutes, 40 seconds
I don't have I gota you know I can't play this role anymore. I've been the bad guy, you know, and I'm wanting to tell her now let's go get him. But then I'm saying there no I can't. That's
25:49
25 minutes, 49 seconds
wrong to her. And and then of course the crying from her and the hurt and her she's a mama and I but I've already, you
25:56
25 minutes, 56 seconds
know, have really went through that in my mind that I get it. Mamas are different. My mom was different to me, you know. Um,
26:04
26 minutes, 4 seconds
man, the pain. And I mean, we both cried and and really that's kind of where we started praying, really praying together. I mean, that whole night, man,
26:12
26 minutes, 12 seconds
we cried and we prayed and we called out to God and just said, "Hey, man, whatever you you know, God, I was more
26:19
26 minutes, 19 seconds
for her. Help her because the hurt, the crying, the the everything she was going through killed me because this is a
26:26
26 minutes, 26 seconds
woman I love, but yet I see that she's crushed." And she was and I was. But I had to that's where my role as a husband
26:34
26 minutes, 34 seconds
and a father had to change. I had to man up, you know. I had to admit that we have a problem too, you know. And that now she's in this ride with me.
26:42
26 minutes, 42 seconds
I've got I'm all in. I can't be one foot in and one foot out.
26:46
26 minutes, 46 seconds
I really like that. Can you remember the first words you said to her when you got off the phone by chance? I know you prayed and that kind of cried. You just cried.
26:54
26 minutes, 54 seconds
We just grabbed each other and she's like she said, "What?" I remember. She said, "What did I just do?" And I said, "No, you're right. We've we've got to do this. We got to rely on God." Yeah.
27:02
27 minutes, 2 seconds
And it was about that time or shortly after that or before that to where I truly believe that the Holy Spirit has spoke to me because I, you know, and I
27:10
27 minutes, 10 seconds
was like, "Dear God, why? We're we're we've already been praying, you know, God, take him." And I really feel like the Holy I know I don't feel anything. I
27:19
27 minutes, 19 seconds
know that the Holy Spirit prompted me at that moment and said, "Well, then give him back." And in my mind, I'm thinking, "Well, we did." And I'm telling you, this is
27:28
27 minutes, 28 seconds
crazy, but it's not really people that believe, but uh I started thinking about, you know, well, Brandon is not really ours. He's God. He just gave us stuff to babysit.
27:37
27 minutes, 37 seconds
And then I started thinking about, you know, a baby. What do you do when you get a fussy baby? You hand it back to the parent. When you hand it back to the parent, you don't hold on to one leg or hold on to one arm. You give it back.
27:47
27 minutes, 47 seconds
That's good.
27:47
27 minutes, 47 seconds
And at that moment, I said, "Okay, God, I'm giving him back.
27:51
27 minutes, 51 seconds
I'm done." Yeah. I mean, he's yours. And whether he lives, whether he dies, whatever come happens, he's yours. And I
28:00
28 minutes
I shared that with her and and I don't remember that night or some point around there. I said, "We got to give him back.
28:05
We can't keep holding on to anything, nothing." And that was probably one of the changing moments.
28:11
And it's got to be hard because when you say things like that, it's all especially when you just said, um, you're okay even if he passed away at that point.
28:21
Yeah. I mean, and that's I don't I'm glad he didn't, but I mean, just to hear that you got to parents that's what they
28:27
feel like they're doing is like just not that it would be a relief, but it would be okay because you just don't
28:36
have any control over somebody else's and we were free will done. You know what I mean? Mhm.
28:42
Now, how close when you say your marriage got to a a huge uh breaking point? Um you already started going to counseling. I guess your breaking point
28:50
had already happened and then this night is when everything kind of solidified and you guys started working on on your relationship again maybe or you just knew then that
28:57
little by little and then that was Yes.
29:00
the bonding point I think of of that where we really got together. Good.
29:05
And I think that was the night we really together gave it to God. I mean because I mean that was pretty much all we were doing was just praying and talking and Yeah.
29:13
Uh I think that's when God started healing in our marriage. What did the next couple of days look like? What did y'all
29:20
do as a did you um did you ever did you talk to him or did you really just keep the phone down? And I because I'm thinking through that night. I've gotten
29:28
a phone call app before that the call no parent ever wants to get about I'm in trouble.
29:33
You know, so you have to get your stuff together pretty quick. And so you did. But what did the next day look like? What did the next few days look like?
29:41
He called the next morning. He did said he was here. Yeah.
29:45
Mhm. He made it back. Um, and that's really the only thing.
29:49
Well, he wanted to know if he could come get some clothes and stuff. That's right.
29:53
And she said, "No, you're not welcome in our house." And then this whole thing starts over again. You're like, "Oh, no." For her as a mom to tell him, "No,
30:02
that was really probably the bigger point because this was a night of exhaustion. I mean, you know, just wondering where he's at. Is he okay?" I
30:10
mean, um, because he never really called us and told us he was in a bad place. um you know in that sense and so that's
30:17
where I was kind of like whoa u there was many a nights we go looking for him downtown they ain't have no we didn't have a clue where we were riding
30:24
you just riding around that was in our head that's where we begin to come become crazy really in a sense cuz we did we were riding around because um
30:32
one of his friends said I'll tell you where to go and I told Jeff I said get in the cars like 2:00 in the morning he said where are we going I said I'm going to pull him out of this house that's
30:40
where I'm going [laughter] that's crazy we can't go down there and I said, "Yes, we can. Come on." Yeah. You're willing to put yourself in danger. I know. I wasn't thinking.
30:48
[clears throat] I mean, I was I'm literally I tell you, it was about to drive us crazy.
30:51
No, I mean, but the reason I say that I'm glad you said that is because again, listeners may hear that and they're like, I got to fix my kid. I got to do this. I got to go pull him out of this house. I got to go get him out of jail.
31:00
But the the biggest thing you did was, I'm not coming. Yes. Click. But that's the hardest thing. Yes.
31:08
Um I commend you guys for that. It's It is tough. It [snorts] was tough.
31:13
And you know, speaking of other people, I always tell them, I can't tell you what will work because we don't know. But I can tell you what won't work.
31:19
Paying their bills, paying their cell phone bills, you know, letting them stay out when they want to. That's the things that won't work. And you know, and really you focusing on them, you got to get away. You got to fix yourself.
31:29
So, if you could go back and talk to yourself then and give yourself maybe a different set of boundaries, um, what would you what would you have done
31:37
different? which had not paid the cell phone bill and made him get their own phone bill and pay for it with her own job at some point.
31:43
He was working in Savannah Riverside making good money and she was still paying his bills. Really?
31:48
So, it's just Yeah. I mean, you just you get caught up in it and it's uh you do a lot of crazy things. I mean,
31:55
but I had to have that connection, you know. I had to have that boy control. It was connection.
32:00
That connection. Yes. Even if he didn't answer, I would still call it just to just to hope one day that he would answer.
32:09
Now, life goes on, right? You guys he goes through his 20s and and you mentioned in and out of treatment and so pretty much you guys are in and out of treatment with him, but at some point
32:18
he meets a woman and and and they start having kids. What did things change? Um when did things
32:25
change for Brandon? Was it before April? April was Yeah. And I can tell you tonight we knew it's kind of cool story.
32:32
We were sitting in the living room and I think it was Christmas. All the family was there and um so it was early on in their relationship. We had met her a few
32:39
times but not really know her at all and Brandon went to go we were talking about something Google or whatever and she went to go grab Brandon's phone and he
32:48
said whoa whoa whoa that's my just ingest you know that's my phone.
32:52
She didn't say anything and if you know April you know I'm surprised she didn't say anything.
32:57
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. She's going to let you know. Yeah. She rolls her neck.
33:02
So, uh, she walks away. She comes back and she said, "Uh," and not in front of everybody, in front of everybody, but
33:10
not a show, just kind of between them, but we were watching. She says, "Here's mine." And he said, "What?" She said, "Here's my phone." And he was like
33:18
confused. She said, "You can look through my phone anytime you want." And I look over at Pam. Pam looks at me and I kind of nod to the kitchen and we got to go down. We're going in there. We're
33:26
high five. And I'm like, "Lord, I prayed his whole life to find a woman for him.
33:29
I don't know if this is it, but she matches all the boxes. Please, because she didn't show out. She didn't, you know,
33:38
uh, cause a scene, which a lot of women would. You know, well, what are you doing hiding from? She didn't do any of that. She simply let him know that, hey, if we're going to be in this thing together, this is what I'm I'm feeling.
33:48
If here's my phone. Yeah.
33:49
And I knew then I said, God, and first of all, she had two little boys that had already stolen our heart, man. Palmer
33:56
and Breen are my boys. Yeah. And uh you tell love, but uh I was like, I can't have this. This is it. This is it.
34:05
But I I kind of need your help here. You know, I don't want to get in your way, but man, this this girl clicks the boxes. Not saying she's perfect, but she's perfect for Brandon.
34:14
Yeah.
34:15
And her Did you guys know she was in recovery at this point? Yes.
34:18
Yeah. We we knew that very early early on. And um we kind of been through No, because we had uh Yes. a
34:25
little bit because we had been through enough to where um we had been to the Allenol and u celebrate recovery and
34:32
then we joined a group uh called POW which is a parents of addicted loved ones. It's not just for parents um it's for anyone dealing with an addicted
34:40
loved one and it's faith-based uh it still goes on here in Augusta but it's I've spoken at one of their meetings have you? Yeah there's in Martinez I think.
34:48
Yep. Uh but there's more of a an open dialogue and uh that's what we needed. But one of the worst things you can do and even talking with Cliff, some of the others
34:55
is for two people in addiction to get together. It's not always a good thing.
35:00
Yeah, they want you to have like a year a year in your recovery.
35:04
I don't know if he's one of those that had quite a [snorts] year yet. She was a whole lot further along than what Brandon was, but yeah.
35:09
Uh yeah, so I knew she was the perfect person for him or believed that. Anyway, um the bonus was she had two of the coolest kids in the world.
35:19
Um and then but then you know and then that night though we were kind of like I'm I'm telling you we got giddy in the kitchen thinking, "Oh, this is so cool."
35:27
You know, so April's I'm not saying she, but that period of time um her faith in God, I think her
35:34
trust in in God um where she was was probably a ministry to Brandon. Um,
35:41
and we probably helped as much as we could shoving in her way cuz we just felt like she was right for him. Yeah. You know, I married them too. Yes. Yeah. I married them.
35:50
I was in it. Yeah.
35:51
Um, and I I bring that up just because I got to see a little glimpse in um inside of that relationship. And then we, you
35:59
know, the uh Stevens Creek has told their story and and really um highlighted some things. But can we have a tough conversation for just a minute?
36:07
Sure. So after um after the wedding, Brandon had a relapse.
36:14
Yes, he did. Can you walk us through that?
36:17
Was at work and um the kids that was you talking about when Lake Avenue? Yes.
36:25
Oh, we were riding on Bobby Jones.
36:27
I know. But she had called. Her mother was supposed to pick the kids up for ball and um she couldn't the mother
36:35
couldn't get Brandon um to come to the door. The kids weren't there. They were with her, but she had to get their stuff. She couldn't get Brandon to come to the door. Well, me
36:44
and Jeff um by that time were on Washington Road going home and I got a call from April April and she said, "We
36:51
can't get Brandon to the door." So, we immediately, we far, we turned around and I said, "We're headed there
36:58
now." And we got to the house and um we couldn't get in. She She wasn't there.
37:04
We couldn't get in. And Jeff had looked in the um door and saw him laying face forward in the kitchen.
37:13
Sorry, we can take time if you need to.
37:14
And um April pulled up right behind us then and let us in. And um he was actually um he was actually dead.
37:25
He was cold.
37:26
He was cold. He was blue. He um had fluids coming out of his mouth. And Jeff told me, he said, "Pam, roll him37:34
over. Help me get him rolled over." So we rolled him over and Jeff started CPR rolling him
37:41
[snorts] and um he just and I called 911. At the time the feeling I was very
37:49
upset. I was more mad. I think I was furious at him. I don't know what what hit me all of a sudden. I thought, "How
37:57
in the world could you have done this?" I was just I was mad. And then when I got on the phone with 911 when April came in,
38:05
um [snorts] they told then the ambulance and all came and Jeff had continued CPR. They said, "Don't stop." He had continued
38:13
CPR. So, we went they said, "Y'all go in the other room quick." And we went in the other room and they worked with him
38:21
for a while and then a guy knocked on the door and he said, "Y'all can come out." He said, "Y'all can come out." And
38:27
I just knew he had passed. And um so we came out and
38:34
they had him sitting up and he was coming too. They said, "Get around him.
38:38
I want him to see every one of y'all's faces." And we got around. This was the paramedic telling you that?
38:44
Yeah. He was the uh I think he was the head of Gold Cross at the time. And actually he was in recovery self.
38:49
I mean because that's a powerful moment to get you to Yeah.
38:52
get you to be in that room so when he's coming around. So this was Narcan that Yes. that helped him.
38:57
Yes. And a fire truck had came too and it was one of Brandon's buddies buddies. A friend. I hated it for him.
39:04
And Yeah. So he had to work on him as well. And um we all got around him and he did. He started coming to Jeff took
39:13
pictures. Jeff videoed um because you know he's like I want him to see what we had to go through. Mhm.
39:19
And um he he when he opened his eyes he said what in what in the heck has happened and we saw like on the table a spoon and
39:29
we knew that he had um overdosed on heroin.
39:33
The only reason I wanted to bring that up is because um did anything you know life's moving along. Did did anything
39:41
cause this uh trigger of relapse to happen? Yeah, it [clears throat] did. Um April's um exhusband
39:50
had tried to come back into the picture and um actually April was pregnant with
39:57
Will Clair and had went to the um doctor that day and had like some bruises, you know, from her lab work. Um, and her ex
40:07
was at the game and he walked over to her and he said, "What is um, what are them bruises all on your arm for? Is he40:16
40 minutes, 16 seconds
doing something to you that you know?" And then they got into it. I'm not sure what else was said.
40:23
It was just a triggering moment. Yes.
40:25
Yes. Cuz they almost Brandon and her ex uh almost got in a fight at a little league game afterwards. Yeah. after that
40:32
and it was I think about the day after that maybe two days after that when because he was almost clean a year yeah I remember right at a year um
40:40
we were talking a good bit and he was I didn't I couldn't remember how long but yeah I know he was he was pretty good ways along yeah it was a year shortly therefore or
40:49
after but I mean it was right I mean you know of course we're like cruise control thinking all right life is good you know it's been a year and little did we know that
40:58
it's never over you know but uh I mean the longer you can go. But I mean, um, but you get this curveball. What
41:06
from the time that you guys started that first hangup, what did y'all do together to remind each other that your marriage comes first or that you guys needed to
41:15
work together as a team in this? Did did any old conversations come up that um were you buted heads or did you find a
41:22
way to to work together? No, actually you guys as the his parents two nights before our anniversary and we still went and celebrated our anniversary.
41:29
Um which [snorts] five years before that it would have happened. I mean there would have been this you know the whole t but I just I
41:36
think we knew then and then I we had been in enough to where um I think some people don't understand is that um
41:44
relapse is part of addiction unfortunately. Yeah, you just got to hope they live through it. I mean and learn from each step along the way. Um, and so
41:52
I think our communication really um was a lot better. Communication got better. I was honest.
41:59
Um, first and foremost, we put God first, period. That's at that point because I mean, when you have no one else to call on you, you start calling on God. And
42:06
then there was little sayings that kind of, you know, hey, you better be careful. You're going to love him to death.
42:10
And you know, people use that often. Oh, you'll love him to death. I just love him to death. They don't understand. You can love him to death if you're not
42:17
careful. But no, I think at that point we were we were crushed but we were strong. But I think we have seen God man
42:25
we have seen so many things that God has done along the way. It's just I'd almost want to I mean if we could just remember them all. It's just crazy how much
42:34
[snorts] he showed up in our life. And I told Brandon a few years back he got on one of these little you know about wrecking a truck or whatever. He said I'm sorry. I said, "Let me just tell you,
42:43
if I had to go through what I had to go through with you again to see the mercy and the grace of God, I'd do it." As as
42:52
much as it hurts, but man, God has showed up so many so many I mean, he has been so faithful. If
42:59
Brandon was driving a VW bug with aluminum cans in the back, I'd have been happy back then, man. Okay, he's clean.
43:05
But and and even April often says it, but man, he has done so much more than I ever expected. I mean,
43:12
it's I can't even begin to explain how much more he's done, but it was hard. It was tough. But at that point, we were together.
43:21
When the relapse happened, did you guys still keep your distance and let him figure out his his plan to move forward?
43:27
Did you feel like you had to jump in and help at all?
43:29
We did kind of jump in. Um, and not that you had to take over, but like a reminder really actually April and him talked. They he came to our house from the hospital.
43:41
They talked and um he said that he needed to go into recovery. Not as long.
43:48
I mean, he needed to go somewhere just to get his mind clear. Yeah. His treatment. I mean, not recovery, his treatment.
43:54
Um, just to get his mind clear. Yeah.43:57
And he went for what, a couple of months? four months to Yeah. New beginnings.
44:03
New Beginnings and um April would go and they had counseling there and then we kind of let her take the lead though.
44:11
That's good. because I had read somewhere back then too at that point that as a enabler and if this someone's out
44:20
there listening just take this one little deal and this this has led me through the whole addiction process and even with my grandkids or anyone else
44:27
but it says it was talking about make it a football game.
44:32
Your your addicted loved one is in that game now as a enabler you're not allowed in that game. You know, you're not his
44:40
coach. The coach is the sponsor. You're not part of the team. Other addicts in recovery are part of the team. You should just simply be the cheerleader.
44:47
So, what would you do in a football game if your son fumbled ball? That's okay.
44:50
Get back up. Get the ball. Come on. Run it again. You wouldn't call him a piece of crap. You wouldn't say, you know, all the things you say just simply be the cheerleader. And we've had to use that so many times.
44:59
That's a good analogy, too.
45:00
Yeah. It's just It's so cool because you can visualize that and say, "All right, we've I said, "Where are we at in this game?" All right, I'm on the sideline. I need to get back up in the stands. And it helps you disconnect emotion, too.
45:10
Exactly. It puts it into perspective.
45:11
And like I said, then, you know, you say, "Okay, I'm back up here." And I've even used it with some buddies of mine that's have gone through it, you know, just in life in general, just say, "All
45:19
right, where am I at in this game?" Yeah. Um, you know, am I You can't go in and call the play. You know, you sure can't run the ball for him. You tell me
45:27
years before that, I'd have been taking the ball and running it for him and let me watch him. No, you you're okay. You But no, you just kind of use that analogy. after Brandon got out, whenever he did um overdose.
45:37
And when that happened, whenever he got out, he was there two months. He got out and he was had been offered a really good job.
45:46
Um before he overdosed, the day before. Yeah. Days before. Yeah.
45:53
Then when he done that, um the guy told him, well, he just said, "Sure, what we're going to do." Brandon got out.
46:01
That guy held his job until he got out.
46:04
Well, it actually happened here because we came to church.
46:07
Yeah. He goes Ryan goes here and he doesn't normally come to our service, the middle service.
46:10
He normally came in the early. He said, "I talked to the sky, man. It's just it's so crazy." I mean, and uh he says, "Just tell him to get
46:18
himself better. Don't worry about the job, you know, because while you're in there, you know, everything's going." He says, "Tell him to focus on him." And
46:25
and Ryan was so cool about that. And that's really good. And and I think God that Ryan allowed God to allow him to to do what he needed
46:32
[snorts] to do to help him. So that was pretty cool. That's really cool.
46:36
And and it it didn't put more pressure on Brandon, you know, whenever he got out, right? He could he could disconnect and That's right. and and focus on himself.
46:45
Yes.
46:46
And that's important. It's kind of selfish, but we we've got to have that um that's the only way we can really start thinking about oursel is when we get become selfish
46:54
um in a good way, a healthy way. And I know a lot of people say, "Yo, it's a coincidence." That's a coincidence. And when Brandon overdosed that night, I got
47:01
to tell this because it's pretty cool. I was out there and I was we were trying to figure out where he was going to go with the recovery community. I mean, a lot of them showed up, which is super
47:08
cool. And um I told him, I said, "Man, that's just a coincidence." And he said, "Man, let me give you a definition of coincidence." And I said, "What's that?" And he says, "Coincidence is a
47:17
non-believer's way of justifying God's word." Whoa.
47:20
And that say that again. It's a non-believer's way of justifying God's word. That's really good.
47:27
Or works. Yeah.
47:29
I mean, and that's just the coolest definition of any word I think I've ever heard because So, there is no def no coincidence. All God's work.
47:37
And I'm going to tell you too real quick. Um whenever Brandon overdosed and they were him and April were sitting on our porch and um we got a call Brandon
47:47
got a call from the um Gold Cross guy, the friend and the ambulance driver. No, we they didn't know him.
47:54
This is the guy for go not doing fireman.
47:57
Yeah, the ambulance driver, the EMT. And he said, he told April, he said, "Um, can y'all meet me and my partner down
48:05
here on Walton Way and let us um talk to y'all?" And when Brandon and April told us, I thought, "What in the world is
48:13
going on? Why does they need to talk to them?" Well, they went down there and um he told him, he said, "Let me just tell
48:20
you." He said, "I was in your situation one day. The same thing happened to me." He said, and let me tell you, when we
48:28
got this call in tonight, he today, he said it was a DOD um DO A dead on arrival.
48:38
White dead on arrival. And he said, you were dead.
48:42
And he said, you have I don't know what happened. He said, you have a calling. He said, God did
48:49
something today that I have not seen. He said, "Because you laid there way too long." I think they said what, an hour or something.
48:58
It took us about 10 minutes to get to him. 20 minutes for the ambulance to get there while I was working on him. So,
49:05
and that seems like an eternity, don't Oh my gosh, it does. So then when they took him um well, when they had took him
49:13
to the hospital, that guy, he kept riding around the block, riding around the block. Me and Jeff was standing outside and he said, "I'm just checking.
49:21
Is Brandon gonna be okay? I told Jeff, I said, I feel like he's a guardian angel.
49:27
I said, you know, why why does he keep coming by here and checking on us? And he said, do y'all mind if I go to the room and talk to Brandon? But we didn't
49:36
know at the time, you know, that he had been through the same thing.
49:40
And um I think for a while they still stayed in touch with him. It was him and um a lady and they stayed in touch with
49:47
him. And um but he did he said he he he was dead whenever he got there.
49:54
Yeah. You talk about addiction resilience. That's how we say resilient our sobriety too. We just we see other people's story and kind of relive it. It
50:02
just helps us for today. Well, y'all did fantastic. I I don't know.
50:06
I hope you got a chance to say all the things that you wanted to say, but you you did a a really really fine job on on this episode uh sharing real
50:14
conversation. You went back you able to shed tear and you thought through some situations, but at the end of the day, it's um it's all good. Brandon's still
50:23
here. He's in recovery. They got me. So, they got four good looking young. What's the little fella's name? Gray. Gray.
50:31
Gray.
50:31
He's cool, isn't he? [laughter] Let me tell you, I get to hang out with him a good bit. Oh, he's a mess.
50:37
Again, I want to say thank you guys so much for coming on and and sharing your some of your story and letting everybody have a a peek inside of what life is
50:44
like. Um, I I I do want to say that I got approved to write a book and it's to you guys. It really is. It's to the parents of people um that are parents of
50:53
of kids in addiction because parents, family, they get lost in the balance between enablement and support. And so,
51:01
this is great. I'm I'm glad you guys came on and shared your story. Thanks for having us.
51:04
I want to say thanks so much for uh Jeff and Pam for being on the podcast. This conversation we had took us on some ups and downs and some curves. we saw some
51:13
emotion and and heard some emotion. But, you know, in these heavy kind of conversations, we have to find the good and there's been a lot of good. So, thank you guys so much for being on this
51:21
podcast. Um, but to the parents that are out there, there are groups of moms and dads like this for you to connect with.
51:28
I'm I'm working on a book now that will help you to remember that your relationship comes before your children.
51:33
And that's hard to say and it's hard to accept. But as we close, I just want to say that your relationship with your spouse matters, but so does your children. And and thank you guys for
51:41
helping us understand how to balance that out.