Married to a Stranger: Uncovering 10 Years of Lies | Evelyn Reed | The Recovery Vow Podcast

Trigger Warning: Trauma, Sex Addiction & Necrophilia. Viewer Discretion Advised

Due to the sensitive nature of this story and to protect the privacy of her family, Evelyn has chosen to remain off-camera for this interview.

In this raw and intense episode of The Recovery Vow Podcast, Eric sits down with Evelyn to share her harrowing story of discovery, betrayal, trauma, and the fight to save a marriage that was built on lies. After twenty years of what she thought was a happy union, a transatlantic cruise became the setting for a nightmare when her husband began confessing to a decade-long double life.... Evelyn courageously opens up about the devastating reality of "trickle truth"—from learning about massage parlors to discovering a history of prostitution and disturbing addictions that spanned their entire marriage.... She details the immense emotional and financial toll of sex addiction, the grueling process of full disclosure, and how therapies like EMDR and brain mapping helped her navigate the shock....

This heart-wrenching conversation is a testament to the complexity of the vow "for better or for worse." Evelyn’s journey reminds us that while betrayal shatters trust, finding one's voice through truth and recovery can lead to a new kind of survival.

On This Episode:
• The "cruise ship confession" that changed everything
• Understanding the pain and damage of "trickle truth"
• The reality of sex addiction, process addiction, and betrayal trauma
• How EMDR and brain scans aided in processing the shock
• Counting the cost: The financial and emotional price of addiction
• Why Evelyn chose to stay and how she found an outlet in writing

Connect with Evelyn:
Book: Shattered Vows
Music: Evelyn Reed on iTunes/Spotify


Connect with us:
Socials: @‌RecoveryVow
Website: http://recoveryvow.com
Email: recoveryvow@gmail.com

New episodes every other Monday! Top ways to support this podcast:

• Give this video a thumbs up

• Subscribe to our channel

• Follow us on FB and IG

• Subscribe on Apple, Spotify, and Amazon Music

• Transcript

  [music] [music] Okay, so we're going to dive in and talk to Miss Evelyn. Miss Evelyn, thank you so much for being here on the Recovery Valve podcast. I want to honor you by not having you on camera, but I do want to say thank you for being here and just sharing your story. And and as you dive in, I want you to have the listeners kind of come along with you on the journey. So, as you talk, u put us in the room with you. Put us in your in your mind with you. Um, and you you described it as D-Day uh in 2018. Um, but you wanted to kind of go back before that as you were kind of getting to that point. So, let's start where you're comfortable and then let's walk through it. But get get to the point. I think you said something a minute ago um about being married to someone for 20some years. Married 20 years and he lied from day one. And lying from day one means four years previous to that when he first asked me out on a date and didn't tell me anything about his sexual history or addictions or anything that um he told me about his ex-wife but not what he had done to her only that she did him wrong. So he's married once before. Twice before. twice before. You were his third wife. Third wife. First marriage was 6 months. Second marriage was 10 years. I knew he had an affair on her. I didn't know he had three affairs. Did some necrophilia, some voyerism, and uh another side chick. Time out. What is necrophilia again? Where you touch dead people inappropriately. Go ahead. didn't know any of that until the second D-day. So, what do you what is a D-Day? Uh disclosure or discovery day. Okay. So, this is deep already, Miss Evelyn. So, um thought I had a great marriage up until 2018. Yes, there was some sexual issues like he wouldn't want to have sex with me so it was some sexual anorexia and I thought it was me and my childhood trauma and it turns out it was him. Yes, I had childhood trauma, but it was him. So 2018, I caught him at a massage parlor using Apple Find My and kept calling him, kept calling him. And he finally called me back at midnight. He's on the ground on his knees. I'm at I'm in another state. He's in another state. And he's like, "It was only a hand job. It was only a hand job. I didn't It didn't mean anything." Mhm. And so he comes back home. we go through a year. You're doing good right now because I'm not I'm I need listeners know I'm not envisioning the hand job part, but I see him on his knees like begging to talk to you and and talk to God. He's like, "Oh, what did I just do to my marriage? Am I going to be kicked out?" And he had all these thoughts running through his head. Can I ask you a question? Uh did he deal with um that's a type of process addiction, right? Did he deal with u any alcohol or u substance addiction? No. But we'll get to another addiction. Okay. Uh it's still sex addiction, but uh something else. Yeah. The only reason I asked that is because, you know, I've had folks talk about process addiction before, but this seems very heavy. Um keep going. So 2018, I catch him and uh he comes home. We discuss a lot of stuff and he says, "Yep, I'll go to therapy, individual therapy, couples therapy." Not knowing what a sestat was. What is a C stat? A certified sex addiction therapist. Okay. So, we just go to a regular therapist who doesn't know anything about sex addiction because I didn't know anything about it at the time. And he lied to his therapist, my therapist, everybody about what occurred in 2018 and what occurred his entire life previously. So, forgive him, trust him, move back on. Don't trust fully, uh, but trust. How long did you guys go to counseling for before you decided to let the trust guard kind of be forgiven? About two years. Okay. And um but from 2018 forward because he also had a pornography addiction. And I would say any PMRS, porn, masturbation, or sex with someone else. Another definition of PMS. And every week we'd have a check-in. Nope. No PMS. No PMS. Every week. So, um, okay. [clears throat] PMS, porn, masturbation, or sex with other people. I don't want to be mean when I say this, but you mean dead or alive? Dead or alive. But I didn't know that in 2018. Did not know that. Okay. The only thing I knew is he had a hand job, but not from the dead person. Correct. [laughter] Jeez. Let me Okay, keep going. So, um, we decide we're going to go on a cruise and in Florida, we're getting ready to get on the ship and I do a check-in just the day before and I'm like, "Any PM or S?" And he's like, "Yes." Which one was it, PM or S? That's was my question. And he goes, "Uh, P&M yesterday." And I'm thinking, "Oh, one time since 2018. Not a big deal." And so I'm upset. Yes, it's a slip. Not knowing what a slip was at the time. in process addiction. Do you think the counselor would have told you that that would been a relapse? Like Yes, absolutely. So, I get on the ship for a transatlantic cruise, which is 14 days from Florida to uh Europe, which means eight days bobbing in the water. We get on it. The next day, we're in the cabin and we have adjoining rooms because we're trying to get points to go to the next tier. And you get double points if you go to the next tier. And um so you got your own room. He's got his own room and they're adjoining and he's in the one room sitting on the bed and he comes in and there's the look on his face. He and I said, "You're going to blow up my world, aren't you?" And he goes, "God just told me to tell you." He goes, "He's screaming at me to tell you." Is this coming from a place of guilt? He said, "God talked to him." Uhhuh. Just screaming at him. and he sits in the chair and I'm in the other chair and I just start shaking and he goes, "I lied about the massage parlor in 2018. I had full unprotected sex and I'm like, "Okay, I'm just shaking and I can't scream because there's someone in a cabin next to me and we're on a ship and I can't go anywhere." And uh he goes, "I've been seeing prostitutes from 2018, 10 years back for 10 years. prostitutes, massage parlors, different states, different locations. His favorite prostitute was Sandy. His next favorite prostitute was Mickey that he would do bearback with. What is bearback? No condoms. Okay. So, for 10 years, I was subject to possible STDs and didn't know it. Were you okay? I'm okay. Yeah. That's an embarrassing part that you have to go to a clinic and be checked because you didn't do anything and he did. Yeah. and he's okay. That's a miracle of God right there that I got nothing. Oh my gosh. Keep going. So, um, he is spiraling downhill. I'm spiraling downhill. And just on that information alone, 10 years of prostitution, which is why he doesn't want to have sex with me, is because he's having sex with everyone else. And it's when I'm out of town or when he has an urge. And it got to the point that um he would do it basically in our backyard as the more the addiction got um higher the closer he would try to get um he would do what in the backyard? Uh have sex not he didn't have sex in the backyard but in our in our city instead of in different states. So the the higher the addiction got the more he needed to have a high of I'm almost going to get caught. Mhm. Um he uh was he's retired now uh in the sheriff's department. So he would take the unmarked cars to massage parlors as a way of you know getting that high. I'm going to get caught. Not going to get caught. And in fact the massage the massage parlor I caught him at two weeks later had he had been there was raided and shut down. So he was that close to going to jail as a cop. And I need people to hear this as you guys are listening to this episode so far. I mean, I've kind of been a little bit of shock. I mean, I've heard of process addiction. I've heard of sex addiction. I didn't deal with sex addiction. I dealt with um uh substance addiction, but I've heard of people saying how powerful it is. Um, and this is one of those powerful episodes. So, um I guess I should have done a a listener discretion, but just keep listening. So, we're on a cruise ship. The only way off is to jump over. We immediately um I reach out to my counselor. He reaches out to a counselor. We're talking by Zoom to each counselor. And unbeknownst to us, both counselors called the ship or called the company to call the ship and we were under security watch. The rest of the crews. Wow. because he was suicidal. Like I was going to jump off the ship. Yes. Cuz he thought if I knew everything about him, I would leave him. So he's just going to leave me. And I still didn't know everything. See, that's the G. I feel like that would been the guilt for me. I don't think God would have told him that. Not I don't know anything about this story as I'm listening to it. And so, okay, God told him to say something but not to jump. So security watched us very carefully and then we would go to the shows and go to dinner and smile and like nothing's going on because you had to play the part. Play the part. Um for security reasons. Um yeah. Or to keep him safe. Like tell me what that felt like. I mean that would be like um if I relapsed and my wife um tried to play it off, but it would be that would be difficult. It was horrendous for my wife. It was horrendous. Okay. because you're sitting at a table with three other couples and oh, how'd you guys meet and what's your story? And I'm like screaming, you know, I wanted to just take the knife and stab him at that point. Um, but we have a son who lives in another country and we were going to take the transatlantic over and then fly over and see him. And so we were spending a week with him as well. So, not only did we have to play the part on the ship and just quietly be angry at each other or him me angry at him because you can't yell and scream and then spend a week with my son and daughter-in-law like we are the perfect married couple. Nothing's going on. And that was extremely hard. And that the kids, the adult kids know nothing about this. That's the reason we have you off camera. Yeah. I'm not going to mess up their lives for his addiction. Okay. Can I ask a question? You guys still married? We are married and we are married for several reasons. Um, in my book, Well, let me let me We're married. Yeah, we let's keep talking about the the addiction side of it before we get to the recovery side of it. So, um, we see him for a week, come back, he immediately goes into an intensive outpatient therapy program for 12 weeks, three days a Is that offered local or did he have to go away for that? It was you say intensive outpatient. So that's means he's still living at home. Okay. And I'm immediately doing therapy two to three days a week. Um as well. Did he admit anything else in that time? No. Because well during the 12 weeks he was trying to but they kept saying stop doing trickle truth. Stop cutting her with small knives. Oh I did this. Oh I did that. You know, it was a 69 versus a [  ] versus whatever. He just stopped telling her and he couldn't stop. And I also couldn't stop being a detective. I went in fullon detective mode. I got phone records from 08 to current, who he called, what did he do, looked at all his social media, downloaded all the evidence I could, and confronted him with it. So Christmas that year. So we got off the ship in October, December, we're at my uh son's house, my other son's house. How was the ride home from that from that trip? Horrible. It was screaming and yelling because that's the first quiet place we could have. Mhm. Because I mean I feel like you got all this pinup. A lot of rage. Mhm. So um going through phone records and I see that he is calling these numbers over and over. Eight times he called a hooker or a prostitute or a sex worker or whatever you want to call him. He was so desperate to get his fix for a new experience. And I'm like, what the hell is a new room experience? What is it? It's where you put a mat down and grease up. They grease you up. They get greased up and you slide on each other. Okay. So he called that number at least a dozen times repeatedly wanting to get a fix so bad in 2017. Did any point did the counselor say, "Hey, this is a true addiction." Not in 2018. Okay. Because he we only knew about the hand job. Okay. So, um, keep going. I'm I'm trying to what I'm trying to do here, Miss Evelyn, is as as you're telling this story, this listeners will hear this because this is um next level sex addiction. Um and it needs there's so many questions I want to be able to ask for people that that won't have access to you. So, I'm trying to think of of the questions whether it hurts or not, if that's okay. Sure. Okay. Um, so and Cameron, as we go through this, if you if you hear something that you feel like that from your point of view, that would be a question. Okay. [snorts] All right. Are you guys okay? Are you triggered? Yeah. No, I'm You know what? I mean, it's this is next level. It's going to get worse. Take us. Um, so where do we stop? We stopped. You were raging from the cruise ship going home. And then I ask you if this was if this was had this ever been defined as like a true addiction. Um in 2018 it was not defined as a true addiction. In 2023, yes, it was when he went to his outpatient therapy and had all kinds of tests done to determine uh if it's an addiction or not. Do you treat that kind of addiction like you would with a 12step process or like how how how would they how did they uh treat those symptoms of his kind of sexual addiction? Uh first he had to do a 90-day fast. No porn, masturbation, or sex with anybody or anybody. Okay. Or or anything. Mhm. Um and then they start working on his attachment. You know he's an avoidant and what hap and what happened in his childhood? Was there a trauma? So let's go to the childhood. His childhood. Yep. So he was adopted by a family in um another state and he is a different race. Adopted by a white family. The father wanted him. The mother maybe not so much could say, "Oh, you're a dumb soando." And so he dealt with um not being wanted by either his parents of origin or his adoptive parents by being an avoidant and that no one wanted to be his friend. So his only friend could be a a person down the street who happened to be someone who had all the playboys and pen houses. So he's 11. M. So for him to get access to that, he had to give [  ] to that person and receive [  ] from 11 to the age of 16 and gave or received well over 300. And that started the downhill slide because he thought love was just that. And for some of you listeners, you've heard me say before on the podcast that it was that, you know, 12, 13, 14, 15 year old where some folks dive into the addiction of their um um substance addiction where they try the first things or their things for the first time. And so this was their first I'm assuming this was like his first sexual Yes. experience. Yep. Okay. Um didn't know that when we got married. Um, would it would it have changed your point of view if you knew it? I don't know that I would have gotten married. If I knew everything, I would not have gotten married. Okay. I had no intention of marrying an active sex addict. Okay. Usually I listen a lot more than this, but I got so many questions, so keep going. Um, so he goes through all of his therapy. I'm going through mine. We do couples therapy. Um, I do hyperbaric oxygen treatment, safe and sound protocol, EMDR, because now I have all these images in my head. And then how do you become intimate with someone who is telling you this stuff? And we haven't even gone through full disclosure yet because after the 12 weeks is when he gets to tell me everything he's never told me about his sex life. What week are you on right now? Um, at this point of recovery? No, like when you started that [clears throat] process um at full discovery started at 12 weeks. So it's we're four months into the process now and so four months of trickle truths and um what did you do, how did you do it at you know that type of information. Okay. Um so full disclosure comes but a week before that he has to do a polygraph my request and he fails. Four questions is all he has to ask answer and he fails. What were the four questions? Um, is everything in your full disclosure going to be correct? He said yes. That was a lie. And during the trickle truth, I found that he also was um in his position of control at the sheriff's department. Is trickle truth like white lies? No. Trickle truth is Oh, by the way, I only touched her boob. Oh, okay. And and in Trickle Truth, I found that he was um touching women inappropriately at work at the sheriff's department. And anybody that was a woman with a larger breast, he would side hug and grab hold. And uh one of the um people, one of the women at the sheriff's department, he actually went to her house a couple times and swears, you know, it was just to grab her breasts. So, forget what the other two were, but one was is it full disclosure and something about the sheriff's department and her and two other questions and he failed by 83%. So, he answered one question, right? That was $700 for him to fail and he was mortified. We did not talk the whole way home. I was livid because full disclosure is going to be in a week and you can't even tell the truth to the polygraph. And the polygraph person gives him a whole handout of every question he has to answer before we come back a week later to spend $700. And in there, have you touched a dead person? He And he's going through this as we're going home and I haven't said a word for an hour on the way home. And he's and in his mind he's going, "Oh crap." Yep. Yep. Yep. All the things he did that I know. This is a crazy question, but I've got to take people there with you as you're telling a story. Where would he have access to do that? Through his work. Yes. Okay. Because he would go to crime scenes. And or get to that scene, that car accident, and they're dead and they're just warm and he's like, "Hm, what would that feel like?" Or at the morg, hm, they're really cold and dead. What would that feel like? Okay. curiosity. This is going deep. Okay, keep going. So, as he's going through the list, I don't go straight home. I go straight to the liquor store and I get a bottle of whatever. I don't know what, but I'm just like, I need to drink tonight. And I'm not a heavy drinker. And we get in the house and before I even have a drink, he goes, I have to tell you, I touched two dead women's breasts today. Like, oh, in the past? He goes, it was the first time you heard that? first time I heard it. So I He's not even waiting till full disclosure. That's considered a trickle truth and doesn't tell me at full disclosure where it's all at once and hit you at once. He just tells me that. And okay, I'm processing. By the way, I also tried on my mom's underwear just to see what it felt like when he's a child. Uh yes, 13. And they were too big so they were uncomfortable. And that was the only time. Okay. So, full disclosure comes and I'm with my therapist, he's with his therapist. We're in a room and he has to read me everything that he's ever done with who, dates, times, significant events on my birthday, his birthday, on a cruise ship, the kids house, where? Remind me again, was this part of the IOP, which is the intensive outpatient process, or this was just something part of the intensive outpatient process, and it's something I requested. Mhm. You don't Some women don't want it, some do. Let me ask you a question. Why would you want that versus just filing for divorce? Um, because I had 20 years of him being good with the kids and doing good things for my family and for me, but not always for me. Okay. I don't push divorce, but sometimes it's just irrelevant. I've already been divorced once and I found out after going through this with him that he was also a sex addict. Okay? So, evidently I attract him. All right? I don't want to attract another one. I know what's out there. I know what he's done and have have not done. So, why do I want to start over with someone new and say, "Oh, what's all your trauma?" I got you. All right. Okay. So, you're in IOP. Yep. Going through full disclosure. Full disclosure. He takes an hour to read his entire disclosure of everything he's ever done from touching women at work, touching dead people, telling me that he's had more than one affair with his ex-wife and a a side uh person who he had authority over that if she didn't um let him hug her or touch her, then he would pull the business away from her. um didn't know about the childhood trauma. Um didn't know that he had an affair with another married lady and and her husband didn't know. Mhm. So definitely a true sex addiction. Okay. Um that whole thing took an hour. Took an hour. And they advise us to drive in separate cars, go back home in separate cars, or you go to a hotel, he goes to hotel. We decided to go to a hotel together. and uh just play cards and veg and just chill. And you're like, "How do you do that?" Because he had done so much trickle truth. I had known almost everything. The only thing new was um dates, times, and some people's names. Okay? So, he chose to masturbate in public um restrooms, in public parks, in my son's houses, but not his daughter's house. Nothing at the parents house and um on the cruise ship in the restrooms and on in on the cruise ship in our room when I wasn't there. Okay. So, we're in the hotel. We get in the hot tub. You know, it's a public hotel. We're just we want to talk about everything but that. Just need to process it. What else is there to talk about when you've got that kind of information? Not much. Okay. Uh there's anger, disbelief. Um I think if he'd have told me all of that at once, I probably would not have been able to handle it. And I've said this to God many times. I said, "You only gave me what I could handle when I could handle it." Mhm. So I I if he'd have told me all of that on the ship, I might have jumped off the ship because I would have taken it as a self-worth, you know, oh, I'm not good enough for you, but it's not my issue, it's his issue. It's taken a while to figure that out, right? I'm so sorry. What happened after that that meeting? Um I mean after the We know what happened after the meeting, but what happened after the hotel? Um we go back home and um Did they give I'm I'm sorry. Or I guess I should ask ask the question this way. Did they give you a a plan of action on what to do now since you have all this information? So I had a safety plan of what I was going to do for self-care. Because your heart is racing, your nervous system is offline. Your you've got brain fog. You you're a mess. It's a huge betrayal trauma. It literally rewires your brain. And so does sex addiction and or addiction. Rewires your brain. And um so my safety plan was since I can't tell anybody um immediately see my therapist the next day, he sees the therapist the next day. So for his therapist, they went through all of the uh D-Day information, what happened with his childhood that caused him and how can they help him not um be active in sex addiction again. Yeah. And then for me, they went through everything and said, "Okay, he did this and this. Is this Do you still I mean, she kept asking, "Do I still want to stay married? Do I still want to stay married?" And I said, "If he was a a drug addict or an alcohol addict, I said, I would still stay married for better or for worse." That's what I did my vows for, for better or for worse. And she had a hard time wondering why I wanted to stay married. He's a good guy, but had horrible behavior. Mhm. And I have to keep telling them that. You know, I I want to stop you right there because I'm not making an excuse for this. But once we get so deep in our addiction, it's like there isn't a control. Now, it's hard for me to really admit that as I hear the story you're telling because I know that I chose many different things that put me in many different situations in the substance addiction. Okay. I get that stinking thinking or uh when I get all the liquid courage I can to go and make but my decisions led me to go get more and more and more and more because I'm trying to fill this bucket that's got a hole in the bottom of it, right? And so for him, I'm not a doctor or a counselor. I mean, I'm a coach and I want to walk people through, you know, their recovery and the vow that they make to themselves and to their their person. Um, I I'm I'm not saying that he couldn't control it. It's just it's just it's addiction. It's just Yeah, he's filling a hole just like you were filling a hole and um numbing the pain of not being wanted, accepted, not good enough, um and all the childhood trauma. And that's the only way he knew how to numb the pain. Yeah. And then the other part of numbing the pain is all of the horrific things he saw at the sheriff's department going to accident scenes, the secondary trauma. How do I numb that pain? Yeah. So, what happens next? What um you know, you guys are married. You you found all this out. You you you've done all the things. You start doing all this work to to understand your your your person. This is your person. And you decided to stay with this person. Day to day. I decide. Yep. one day at a time kind of thing. Yep. Um because he can choose to go right back into an active addiction and I will be gone. So what we did um before full disclosure is we each got our brain scanned, a spec scan. And that's what also helped me to stay to see am I dealing with an addiction that's in a rut or in a Grand Canyon? And I'm dealing with an addiction that's in a Grand Canyon. Yeah, I would have said Grand Canyon immediately because the brain scan immediately lights up and shows where his addiction is when he's in active addiction. You said a minute ago, tell us about that Grand Canyon. You said a minute ago that it gets worse. Tell me the worst. What was the absolute worst so we can kind of get past that because I want to um the worst was his um the number of [  ] he had to give and I felt sorry for the child. Uhhuh. Oh, this is him at 11. Yeah. And then the necroilia was worse. Yep. That's um Yeah, when you said that word, I was really taken back. Yeah, that that nearly made me throw up when I when he told me. Uhhuh. Um but the brain scans, I also got scanned and then I found out I have ADHD and I'm like, "Oh, that's the reason I've been masking everything." Mhm. Um and then they immediately put him on anti-depressants and um because he's numbing a pain, but what is it? And uh the testing they did said he's not attractive to kids cuz that was a concern. Am I also the testing uh am I married to a sociopath? And you know who am I married to? Am I married to someone that's going to kill me later? But the addiction started out as a [  ] and it continues to escalate. Like you said, you wanted to get more and more. It's the same with sex addiction. It goes from porn to online to prostitution. Then it can go to pedophile to rape to, you know, it continues to escalate. So it's like for me it was like, okay, I tried a little bit of pot or drank a little bit and then I had, well, I'm going to try cocaine and I'm going to try crack and then some people go on heroin, fentanyl, all that. So his catapulted through the same kind of concept, but these different actions. And so when you see the Jeffrey Epstein and the pedophiles, it's like someone's numbing a pain somewhere. And it's unfortunately with a child, but they had started way before then before they got to pedophilia. They started way before that. They've just continued to escalate. Okay. At what point after that brain scan did you decide to understand that um you decided to stay? So you chose recovery? Mhm. Um were you drinking after that that that night? Were you stopped and got alcohol? Did were you drinking on a daily by then or Oh, I was I just had a drink that night just that one night? Yeah. Okay. So you didn't get into an addiction? Okay. Um I just had to Yeah. No, I mean I I get it. Um he did pass the second polygraph before the uh full disclosure because he had then went through the sheet and said, "Oh, yeah, I Oh, that's the other thing." He did voyerism. What is that? That's when you are uh videoing people or looking through their windows. So when he worked at a university as a campus security person, he would take his binoculars or ocular and check out women uh undressing. Okay. So like peeping Tom. Yes. Or using his uh security clearance to get access to their medical files to see if they're on the pill if he wanted to go into their room. Before we get into the recovery, can I ask you a question? Why are you sharing all this? Because women are so shamed that it's them that why their husband went out. And no, it's it's it's a an addiction. And it's deeper. It's deeper than that. And no one no one helps the woman or the the betrayed. So I find out he's an addict has an addiction. They come and I'm bleeding at this point that I he's got an addiction. The ambulance comes and I'm thinking I'm going to be picked up. They pick him up and take him to IOP, intensive outpatient therapy. And I'm sitting on the street bleeding with no resources, which is why I did my book to say, "This is everything I've done." And and my therapist is like, "Well, here, do this next. Do this next." There was no plan of what to to do next. They wanted to spoon feed you instead of saying, "Here's your book. You know, go through it." Yes, you still have to go through the grief process and the anger process and all of that. But I had to keep finding stuff, you know, I wanted to do EMDR right away and they're like, "No, no." But MDR, uh, I em eye movement desensitation. Desensit desensit. Okay. IMDR. EMDR. EMDR. And because you can't spell I with I. This. I is spelled with E. So EMDR is is like a rapid eye movement or hand movement and they're buzzing you. because now I have um images of him with women on top doing 69 and that's all in my head and this is supposed to remove that. Yes, it does remove it and it makes it less quite a bit because when you say that right now I mean you've got to think that right or see that vision or you you just say it and you don't think about it. So, you start by um seeing the worst vision that you see of them together and then what comes to your mind and meanwhile you're you've got things in your hands that are buzzing or they do a light that you go back and forth with with your eyes and then they say, "Okay, now what do you see next? What do you see next? What do you feel next?" And stuff comes up from childhood or stuff comes up from yesterday and they're like, "Go with that. Go with that." And then they change the lights and the buzzing to make it less intense so that you start coming out of the horrific things that you see to seeing better things. So [snorts] at the end I envisioned a white light coming down and doves and God holding me in my arms that I'm okay. I'm safe. Whether he does what he's doing, I'm safe now. So when I get that vision of him [  ] another lady, I get wrapped in white light. You know, when I um it's funny that you say that when I tell my story or if I'm on stage or I've told moments of clarity before and I said, I expected to see these these doves in this white light and that didn't happen for me. But and it was and I say that because I've heard it before just like you've just said it before. It's like these moments of clarity and it just happens for some people. It didn't happen for me that way. Is that uh is that what led you to write shattered vows? Yeah, just because this is a thick this is like the King James version of something. So in there is the story I just told and I started out from the prostitutees point of view and how she view views the men that come in day after day and how she's ruined their lives. And it a thought occurred to me I don't know a week ago or so that she could possibly be a sex addict as well, the prostitutes. Um and then I in there I've got a letter I wrote to Dear Addiction. You can get out of my life devil go away to my younger self, my uh future self. And then he's wrote letters. Um the this full disclosure is in there. My impact letter to him. So after he did full disclosure, I got to write an impact of everything he did that impacted me the rest of my life. I flipped directly to page 115 and it went right to um overall I estimate that I have directly spent approximately $9,55 on my sexual behaviors. uh $100 $150 on pornography, $25 on strip clubs, $8,400 on massage parlors. Yeah. And that was $750 on prostitutes. Is this over the course of the whole the whole addiction? This was a course of uh 10 years. 10 years. Mhm. I mean, he wasn't into strip clubs a lot for 205 bucks. Uh no, he went twice. Um, and then the pornography, I guess he's just like renting movies. But the massage problems, that's a big line item of uh sexual addiction. That's $8,400. The pornography he got free from the neighbor or you had HBO that you could get Madam Chatterly's online and all that. Um, and then he also had fake email accounts that he could get into and write reviews and then he could get um his porn that way. So, he was very cheap. Um, but if you go to page um 142, I added up his jail time and prison time had he been caught for any of this and he would have spent two years in jail and 161 years in prison. And there's a dollar amount there. Yeah, the dollar amount is over half a million. And that's the hard cost of addiction of what he paid for sex workers, pornography, um treatment and therapy is $50,000 and still growing. Um guilt offerings is, you know, when he bought flowers or jewelry for um me or his ex-wife. And then the lost time and lost relationships is the cost of his divorces and uh lost time for he lost with his two daughters. Um, okay. I want to I want to let this have time to breathe for a minute, Evelyn. Um, I need to breathe for a minute. If I'm being honest with you, uh, this book is thick. Now, [cough and clears throat] you know, it's it's interesting that you said there was nothing there for you to um, walk through this with him. And you're right. Uh, there's there's not a lot of resources out there for supporting spouse of someone in addiction. Um, so you've got shattered vows. Recovery vow was the original name of my book, Marriage After Addiction, and it's written to the supportive spouse of someone that's walking through their addiction um, uh, process addiction or substance addiction. Now, my book is way thinner than yours, and that doesn't mean anything. This is meant to be a resource, a tool, but I I noticed in in yours there's questions and answers in in some of this where it's kind of like a workbook. Is that right? Yes, it is a workbook. Um and um when you when you're giving your resource to other people, is this one solely for sex addiction or affairs, any any betrayed partner. Okay. Okay. All right. Can we talk about um because I want to honor your time here with us. Can we um can we talk about your marriage in this and um you decided to stay and you kind of told us why you decided to stay, but what what work did you do once you knew that there was nothing available? What did you do to help rebuild your marriage? You know, now you're both in this route. Now, I know this was his addiction, but he brought you along. And if you're sticking it out with him, in my point of view, you're both in this recovery together. Correct. If you're both in the addiction together, you're both in recovery together. What did you decide to do? Um whether it be counseling, you know, you wrote a book. Did you go through your own book? Everything in the book is what I've done. What you've done. Okay. talk to us and and and and uh the listeners are just going to hear you, but um how did you begin the the the healing journey back to where you are now and what got you to this point? Because this is 2018, 2019. It's only 2025 right now. It's about to be 2026. So, this isn't even a decade ago yet. Yeah. So, you're still working on this. There's different, you know, in in in substance addiction, there's different milestone markers and things like that. Did you guys celebrate those milestones? Like when he hit a certain amount of time without that, you guys hit that together. Did you know what did you do as a team? So the first year he's like, "Hey, I've been PMS free. That's a great anniversary." And I'm like, "No, that's my shatterversary. That's the day you shattered me." And there's I have I actually what helped me was writing the book and then writing songs. And I wrote a song called Shatterversary, The Day You Shattered Me. Does that because that's your healing process and do you that's my healing process but other people may not be able to write songs and things like that. So what would you encourage listeners I hate to say specifically women I'm sure there's women out there that deal with process addiction just like they do with substance addiction. So what see what would you recommend outside of that? Yeah. See a certified sex therapist not just for him but for yourself because they got to know what you're going through. Um see a doctor right away. get tested. You may have heart problems. You may have um What are you getting tested for? STDs. STDs or some STI STDs? Because some STDs, I think they they can come up later. Mhm. Yeah. I'm waiting. Y I hope not, but that is a thought in the back of my mind that he risked my life for his pleasure. Yeah. [snorts] Um see a certified sex addiction therapist. Do couples therapy. um get a checkup. So a year ago I had a bone scan and they said, "You've lost bone." I'm like, "Okay." And there's they said, "Have you been under stress?" Because I hadn't told them. And I'm like, "Yes." And so that caused bone loss being under stress. I've had heart palpitations. Go see a heart doctor because you just get so revved up. And so you have to do breathing exercises. I did hyperbaric oxygen treatment. I would just sit in a hyperaric chamber for an hour and just get pure oxygen and just have calming music. I would journal and journal and journal because what I couldn't say to him, I would just scream in my journal cuz I raged probably the first month and after that I'm like this isn't good for our relationship. Raging is not helping. That's what I was going to ask next is like you've got this that you're dealing with, but it can't be what you talk about every day. You've got to get back to a point of having some kind of relationship in your marriage. So, um, how long did that take before you start having like regular, "Hey babe, did you pay the light bill yet?" or you want to go out to eat somewhere and then you respond like, "I don't know what I want." And then we mentioned five restaurants and that's not what you want. You know, when do you start getting back to, you know, the fun in marriage? Uh, it took a while. And I guess maybe the question you want to ask is when did we become intimate again? No, but go ahead. Um I mean I really wasn't thinking that. I was thinking like really like just the basics like did you sit down and watch the news together at night time? Did you have cups of coffee together? No. News and movies are triggering. Too much cleavage. I mean I would I was triggered by women with boobs. You were? Yes. Because that's what he wanted was larger breasted women and that's what he lusted after. Okay. And so it's like, oh, they have boobs. Whether it's an A cup to a D cup, they have boobs and he must be lusting after them. So it took me a long time to get over that. I don't mean this in a funny or weird or the derogatory way, but like even with CSI and different shows like that where it may show a body that that is that a trigger you have to guard against? We don't watch those anymore. You don't watch anything like that? No. What what do you do in your marriage when you're dealing with something as heavy as this to get back to a place of normaly? Um, you look at all the reviews on movies and shows and oh, is it P or PG13? And nothing above that. It's just we don't do it anymore. It's either triggering for him or triggering for me at this point. Okay. Um, but for sexual relationships, I was so mad on the ship that he denied me sex with him because he was having sex with prostitutes that he denied my intimate time with him. I'm like, fine. You owe me. Yeah. So, I mean, that's a hell of an I owe you, too. Yeah. Okay. So, he owes me. If I ask, he owes me. Okay. Do you feel like is that a come that feel? Huh? That feels like control. Yeah. Um, it does. Um, but I don't ask. I let him ask. He has to chase me and want me and so I feel chosen. So, I don't ask. Okay. Did something click in your head that that you went back to your vows and said, "Okay, I made a commitment." Not about going starting over and, you know, being married again and dealing with someone else's stuff or kids and all that. Did you ever consider your relationship and the commitment you made in your vow that helped you decide to stay? For better, for worse. Yeah. This is the worst. Yeah. How are things right now today? Really good. Good. We're going on a cruise uh in a week. So, with my Is that something you guys is that y'all? It seems like that's y'all's thing. Yeah, we've been cruising for since ' 08. Actually, that's how we got married. Not on a cruise ship. Our not on a cruise ship. Our uh my in-laws at the time, all of our parents are dead, which I'm glad because I don't think any of them could have dealt with this. Yeah. Um his parents said, "Hey, we want to take you guys to lunch." We were dating for four years. And we're like, "Okay, what'd you do?" "Well, what'd you do?" Because they're very strict Dutch reform parents. And they're like, "We want to take you guys on a cruise and pay for it." We're like, "That's great." They're like, "You have to be married." We're like, "Okay." And that's how we got married. That's how it was done. Okay. But I just didn't know he wanted to be married single. Married single. I never heard that. Yes. But he's he's getting to do what he wants as a single person, but have a ring on. Yeah. Okay. Wow. Evelyn, this has been a lot. Mhm. How did you find recovery, Val? I was uh looking at recovery stuff on YouTube and there it was. Yeah. And I started watching it. Do you remember the first episode you watched and what made you want to reach out to us? You were talking about your addiction. It was my Oh, when I told my story last year. Okay. Yep. Yeah. I remember getting your email and I'm glad you sent that and I'm glad that people see um see their confidence in hearing other people's story. That's what this is for. It's like, you know, this is this is for you. This is dark. This is heavy. But then there's the recovery side of it, too. And that's what I want people to see. Now, a lot of times I'm trying to tell people that listen to this, like, you know, you're going to deal with things in your life um as an individual, as a married couple, you know, as a as as a father, all of these life on life circumstances that'll happen, these curve balls that you'll get thrown at you. This wasn't even a curveball. This was like a bomb. This was a bomb. So, um, it's not my place, I guess I need to say that it's not my place for to tell you to stay married or to leave. And it's not my place to tell you um what you should say, admit to, or carry to the grave. Now, I've learned that in my counseling, like there's some things that I'll never tell anybody that I'm just not proud of in my addiction. And he had to tell it all. And he told it all. Now, in that, I'm assuming that he he did he find the freedom he was looking for in that. Oh, yeah. He found the freedom, but I found the news. I I got his addiction. Yeah. He's free, but I'm not. He had two lives and one lie and now I have two lives and now it's me because he was living a double life and now I get to. And will you always be in process of this walking in your own kind of new way of looking at this or is there something you can do to let that go? Um that's a good question because you talked about these things where you're holding it and it kind of erases your thoughts. The EMDR MD EMDR not IMDR e I guess someday if we tell the kids that would let it go or no family member knows about this not one family member so it doesn't feel like it's a release even when you journal it it does but not enough not enough because I don't get the validation from a person I'd love to give you a copy of my book maybe something just jumps out and you say that's what I needed to see because we talk about everything in here from you know letting different things come back to the marriage after having there's one chat in there just about laughing together, you know. Do you guys do you guys laugh together? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yep. Yeah. We're I'm not going to say we're normal. We do a check-in every day at at 1:30. We do uh five gratefuls and then Thanos. What are you feeling? What do you appreciate about me? What do I appreciate about you? What do you need? What do you own? And then or apologize for what's your success for the day every day. And then we pick a a feeling word. And when was the last time you felt it? When was the first time you felt it? And why do you feel it? Right. Every day. And you get to know that person all over again because now he can speak his truth. When was the last time you guys wrote a love letter to each other? A month ago. Does that help? Mhm. Okay. Yeah. And little notes or he'll send me uh videos of like love songs and vice versa. Okay. Y well this this experience for me on this this episode in general to this date as long as I've been doing this was very very powerful. Okay. So I want to say thank you so much for coming on and uh sharing your story. Thank you for having me. Uhhuh. And um um I'll be praying for you and your husband and um I think you need to continue getting this story out there. I don't have you shared this is your first time sharing this on a podcast. Yep. And then I have um 80 plus songs out under Evelyn Reed on iTunes and Spotify and Amazon. And that's five albums. And I just put out a Christmas song. Christmas isn't Christmas. Now that's not you singing. No, it's not me singing. These are songs you wrote. I wrote and it's artificial intelligence singing it. Singing it. Does that give you an outlet? Is that your outlet to kind of Absolutely. You're telling your story because like I loved um uh different bands back in the day like Allison Chains and he talked about his addiction through his songs and things like that. Um yeah. Um it was also just great music. So I mean if people want they can go listen to that. But, you know, as long as you got something that you're not holding it in because as heavy as that is, like you know, you don't have to carry that to the grave because right, but at some point like I'll get in the car. I can't give you advice. I'll get in the car and sing my own song just another just one more day. Just give me one day of not thinking about this. And it's just I can just scream it out. You know, I don't I don't agree with everything that people talk about when they come on this podcast or people have written in about. Um, one thing that I I don't know if I would do it or not as I've had trauma in the past, but there's this uh it's like a medical supervised um thing with mushrooms. I thought about it. You can't do it in the United States. I'm not pushing you to go do that, but they say it just it eliminates so much. I've actually looked into it, but I've not done anything yet. We had a guy on our on our podcast, his name was Paul Hutchinson, and I didn't expect him to bring it up, but he brought it up. He's actually sent me a link not too long ago saying, "Hey, if you're if you're interested, we'd love to have you, you know, come try this." I just know. Um but uh Paul Hutchinson uh wrote the book Sound of Freedom which then went to the movie based on where they rescued children and things like that. Um and he came on the P. It was great. He did a great job. Um but he talked about doing that and how it just freed him of all these traumas and all the things he saw, you know, with rescuing children and um it just made me think about that. So, I'm not telling you to go get mushroom high because that would be a complete contradiction of what we do on this podcast. But, you know, there's different medical things I guess people need to try. Just think outside the box. I think outside the box when it comes to recovery. Like, there's there's so many different ways. Well, and you said uh movies. Um I reached out to Maddie Corman. She did um Accidentally Brave. Her husband was um her home was, how do I want to say this? I reached out to Mattie Corman and her husband um was a pedophile and she did the show on HBO Accidentally Brave and just said, you know, you would be a great person if this could go to a movie to play it. Yeah. I mean, this would um this would be an incredible movie to be made. I feel like there's um Yeah. I don't know. I don't know, man. That's it's outside of my my purview. I'm just saying to the people that are listening, I want to thank you guys for listening to this. Full disclosure, um, you know, if you made it this far, um, we want to know that there are people out there that deal with this type of addiction. There are people out there that live in this type of recovery, and we still have an opportunity to help them, whether it's through our uh, podcast or through our uh, recovery vow collective or through the book helping uh, people walk through marriage after addiction. you know, we want to be that uh resource. So, thank you so much uh Evelyn for stopping by and sharing your story. Thank you for having me. And for you guys that have sat and watched and listened, thank you so much for doing so. If you haven't done so, um if you haven't done this yet, go to our YouTube channel and you can subscribe there. Um you can also go follow us on all of the social media platforms. this episode along with any other episode we've ever put out, you can listen to on Spotify or any of your favorite streaming platforms. Give us a like on social media. And if you ever want to get in touch with me direct, you can email me at recoveryvgmail.com. If you go to our website, you'll see a link to all of our things, whether it be a podcast, guest application, the coffee, um how to join the collective, or access to any previous episodes that we put out. And I want to say