Finding Peace Beyond Sobriety | Jenna Miller’s Recovery Story | The Recovery Vow Podcast

Today’s episode is a powerful conversation about what recovery really looks like beyond getting sober. Eric is joined by Jenna Miller, who shares her journey through addiction, unresolved trauma, chronic pain, and the spiritual awakening that led her to eight years of sobriety.

Jenna opens up about the moment alcohol stopped being a choice, the intervention that saved her life, and how faith, honesty, and deep inner work helped her rebuild a life rooted in peace—not performance. She also shares how trauma stored in the body shaped her addiction, why worthiness was her deepest struggle, and how healing required far more than willpower. This episode is for anyone who feels stuck in survival mode, questioning their faith, or wondering if real peace is possible after addiction.

On This Episode:
The crisis moment that led Jenna to ask for help
How trauma and chronic pain fueled addiction
What it felt like when alcohol became an obsession
Why early sobriety brought excitement—and loss
Learning to live by “easy does it” after years of chaos
How Jenna’s understanding of God transformed in recovery
Finding peace in the body, mind, and spirit
Eight years sober—and what recovery looks like today

Connect with Jenna Miller:
Website: quantumbodyalchemy.com

Connect with us:
Socials: @‌RecoveryVow
Website: http://recoveryvow.com
Email: recoveryvow@gmail.com

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• Transcript

  [music] Well, I want to say first of all, I'm I'm so proud of you um uh for accepting the invite to be on the podcast, but also for your sobriety. Tell me, how long have you been in sobriety? It'll be eight years in about 10 days from now. So, are you excited? Do you get antsy when it gets close to the sobriety date? I do. Yeah. Yeah. I was never What do you think that is? What are you thinking about right now a week out? I think I'm thinking about the moment of getting my getting my chip and celebrating it and sharing my story, but I'm feeling a lot of the things that I was feeling eight years ago in my body. And so it's reconciling that difference of where I'm at now and then what my body is still telling me from the past. [snorts] What is your I mean if people hear that, what what is your body telling you from the past when you've been sober for eight years? Like what are you what do you mean by that statement? Well, what the events leading up to the rock bottom were were pretty traumatic as isn't is pretty common. And those triggering events essentially are complex PTSD or PTSD. And those are being re-triggered um in my body. And so I don't necessarily go back to the moment in my head, but I do sometimes, but it's more the feeling of of that desperation and the confusion and um and just being in a lot of pain and and misery and and not having any answers. And that's the biggest thing. I had no answers. Yeah. How long were you in your addiction, if you don't mind telling me? And then what was your addiction? Yeah. Um, well, I took my my first drink when I was in high school. Um, that was that was fun experimentation, social stuff. Um, that's how I looked at at the time. And I actually stopped drinking in high school because I was religious and I really wanted to focus on my faith. And so I didn't I didn't drink and then in college I found it again and then it became social. Yeah. And that that progressed on in more of like a fun and then turned into some binge drinking. But what was also happening in like a kind of a separate parallel path and I was trying to focus on more of the fun stuff that was happening in my life and not so much this other track where I was starting to get more physical symptoms and I was going to doctor's appointments and um prescription painkillers were the solution that I was given to that chronic pain. [snorts] Okay, I want to get I want to get deep. Okay, I'm ready. eight years ago. What was what talk me through like if I was in the room with you, just standing there watching you those last 72 hours, what did the last three days look like? Wow. Uh and I'm standing in that room with the swirly art right behind you, like just stand there watching you doing what you're doing. What did it look like? It was complete insanity is what it would be looking at. Um well so I it was a really long period of mostly like slowness and stillness and depression. It was I was on a couch. I was pretty de debilitated in physical pain that wasn't I didn't have an answer for it and I was just I had been depressed for many years. I was mostly just watching TV as my only source of entertainment. And I had a partner at the time and um I was married and he started he was working he was traveling for work which was new and so the isolation was even more and uh so those final moments there it was actually kind of a really sharp shift um cuz the drinking I had been supplementing with drinking for a few months and then the last there was this kind of this realization that happened while I was drunk but it felt felt like a solid realization internally that I could just stay drunk and then I could just not have to feel the pain anymore. I just would need to continuously drink. And so you thought that was a good idea at the time. Your good idea was to stay drunk and just ride it out. Yeah. Just to figure out a way to maintain that that drugness for life. And um but the problem was I was in a lot of pain. So I was drinking so much that it was absolutely not sustainable. and I was both asking for help and hiding from help. So, my family was there and I was like, "Take me into rehab. I I I can't I literally cannot stop drinking in this moment. I'm going to I'm thinking about the next bottle right now as I'm asking for help. I need help." [snorts] And then when I would be taken to get help and be talking to doctors, I was triggered. And then I needed freedom. I needed to escape. And um and then as soon as I would escape, I would need alcoholics to do whatever I was going to be doing as part of that escape, probably just to even come up with a plan. So I didn't really have um it was really a crisis moment and my my ex-husband, my sister, and my parents were there and um they were trying to figure out sort of how to corral me into a conversation to figure out how I could become to to get out of this crisis. And so that's when they called this impromptu um sort of uh um yeah intervention. And they said, you know, like this is a cry for help. Like you need help. What's going on? you you this is like I kind of snapped and and I agree that I kind of did I mean I had been building for months but I didn't no one was this wasn't a like an ongoing conversation of you need to quit your drinking or you need to get help like it was brand new and it was obvious to me that I did because I couldn't even go a second I was my brain was for the first time in my life and I'd seen this on TV and I didn't know this really happened I was my mind was like what's in that mouthwash Is there alcohol in that mouthwash? There might be. And I just couldn't I'm like whoa. I'm right here and I I can't even stop it. And um and I both like I didn't want to stop. Like part of me was like just leave me alone. Like I I just am in pain and you you you nobody understands my pain. That's it never has been understood by doctors, by family, by anyone. So I this is my solution and then I can be a a productive person as long as I have this um [snorts] and uh and no so I I said I I knew someone in the program and I said I'll call him tomorrow and I'll find a meeting and we all agreed that that's what I would do and I did and I went to a meeting that night and it was another huge shift. So, you didn't have to go to um impatient treatment. You you had an intervention and then immediately started recovery program like back to a 12step meeting. Yeah. Okay. Can I ask you a bunch of hard questions like this isn't supposed to be an interview. It's supposed to be like conversation, but you know, you went through that 72 hours um kind of broad. Um you mentioned your ex-husband. Is he your ex-husband because of your drinking? Uh, I wouldn't say the drinking is why he's my ex-husband. I would say the alcoholism is why we got married. Oh, I can relate to that. Like drinking buddies or whatever, maybe. Yeah. Like the ism underneath what what was driving the alcohol drink was putting me out of alignment and I was attracting people into my life that weren't truly authentic for me. Yeah. Even though I loved him. Yeah. And I won't try to be too too personal, but you know, a lot of our sorry, a lot of our listeners um uh some of them are married couples, some of them are moms and dads, and and they just want to hear and see, you know, these Jennas that are out there and like just relate to you to understand that, okay, they went through through the same thing, but you know, a lot of people just isolate even in in recovery. They they get timid in that first year. Do you remember like being um I wasn't all gung-ho about everything in that first year? I mean, everything felt better, but it wasn't like the country song played in reverse where you get your dog back and your wife back and your house back and your [snorts] car back and all these things back, you know? It I lost a lot in the first year, but it was just a part of the growth plan, right? Do you remember what the Okay, so if we talked about the the the three days leading up to it, and I know you didn't really go into detail, so I'm I'm gonna force you to go back into detail a little bit. What What did those those next three days look like? Do you remember? Um, yeah. Well, so I I started with the pink cloud, which is an expression in the program, and I So it's like a I'll describe it for myself. like an immediate euphoric feeling because in that in those rooms I heard solutions to problems I had never heard solutions to like how to sleep at night, how to clean your side of the street and I just I wanted those things so badly and personal freedom. So, I was really excited and the the meetings were were really good for me going to several a day, sometimes three a day and that was energizing me and exciting me and I was getting connected with people that were diagnosing me with with the different things that I um that I had been struggling with that I had no idea about. So um the way I I sort of heard it when I heard the promises in that first meeting was like this is like your higher power is in this in this place and you will find your higher power and cultivate a new relationship and I wanted that. Um, so I was really open and but so the beginning stages I was open and excited, but I did learn and I I had a sponsor that saw this coming and I'm sort of glad she did give me the foreshadowing that I'm going to I didn't lose much in addiction, but I will probably give it all away in recovery. And that is exactly what happened. Everything is different in my life now than it was when I got sober. And it looked like I had a really high bottom, that I had everything, but none of it was in alignment with who I truly am authentically. Yeah. You talked about um your spirituality a little bit or your faith. Um how close to God were you? Um or how close to God did you hope to get uh before and after your, you know, your first step? Um well, I God was always a part of my life. um going to church and I was an evangelical Christian and I loved God. I just didn't believe that God loved me. I mean, I would say it if someone asked me, but on on a deep level, I didn't believe those good things were for me. I didn't feel deserving or worthy. And I didn't know why. I didn't have some reason that I was going back to of well, this is why it makes sense. I just didn't feel that way. So the night that last night before I went to AA the next morning I was praying so deeply just like help me change me fix me you know and and I was hoping for an external miracle which I received to the the the the obsession was lifted and I was given this new path but a lot of the rest of the journey was me making internal changes that were really hard and and required discipline to to um become in a place where I could receive gifts from God. I I wasn't able to receive them where I was. He was giving them to me. I just was over here on a different path. Okay. So, those gifts, what did those gifts look like? And and because you talked about the promises, we'll be amazed before we're halfway through. I've always wondered like what's halfway, you know, and I know it's halfway through the steps, but I never want to be halfway through my recovery, but um tell me some of tell me what that meant to you um when you talked about some of those promises coming to fruition or happening for you. Yeah. Well, so in the early stages there were different part the different parts of me connected different parts of the promises and there were some parts that were really hoping and I will admit expecting that country song in reverse to come to come true and um and then but there was parts of me that wanted those those other parts in the promise is like to know peace and that is one that is that I I finally have and I feel like in like the seventh eighth year I've been like I maybe sixth year like I really have that like I know peace in my body in my home most of my life is peaceful when I'm driving in my car I'm peaceful when I'm in between activities I'm peaceful and that was not the case not one single day that I can remember before I quit drinking I wasn't at peace I remember the first time I saw on the wall in the rooms it says um there's these little sayings and it says easy does it and reading easy does it was physically triggering to me because I didn't feel like it should be easy. I felt like everything good that came into life should be hard. And so that was true for me and for anyone else in the way that I saw it. And but I knew I was in a place where I needed to learn that everything I was doing was wrong because it led me just to rock bottom. And I needed to release those things and and be open to learning a new way. And easy does it was was a good starting point of how do I live a life by by that? How easy does it and it took seven years. Yeah. I mean, easy does it is is easier said than done. I I I totally get that because the way that my brain is wired, you know, I want to go go go go go. Like when I wanted my drug or my my time out with my drinking, it was I would make way for that to happen. So nothing was ever easy, does it? But in the beginning, um I I feel like maybe that that statement um just gives us um a little bit of peace to say, okay, just sit back and breathe for a minute and and you don't have to solve everything on day one. It's going to take another day and another day and another day and just easy does it for today. Easy does it. Don't drink today. Don't do this today. Um, this is a hard shift, but you know, we talked about those three days leading up and I wanted you to put me in the room with you. So, put me back in that room with you. What What did the rockiest rock bottom look like at the very very end if there's a somebody that's going to listen to this and they need to not measure their rock bottom, but just know like what Jenna's rock bottom was. Well, in the two days before I went to AA, I did ask to go to rehab, and my husband at the time and sister drove me out to actually Palm Springs um from from where I was living. So, it was about a 2-hour drive and they took me there and they took away my vape, which cuz I vaped then. And and I think that was a triggering event, but I was drunk when I got there, so I wasn't really of sane mind. And it was my idea. like I wanted to go there and as soon as I started packing my clothes, I mean I was very triggered and freaked out and demanded to to be let out and so I was started a conversation with the people in charge of the the center of how can I leave here and they tried everything in their legal power to keep me there by and through love and compassion primarily but I was just like I can't be here and so they even had a a police officer show up and have a conversation with me, but I just talked to the police officer and said, "I I want to leave. I It's my legal right to leave." And he said, "You're right. You know, I think they're just trying to help you." And I said, "No, thank you." And I I c got into an Uber and I had them take me to Circle K. And I got a fifth of vodka and Gatorade and I had poured it off and I was drinking it in the Uber and I turned off um you know, my phone so my my family couldn't track me. But I went back to my house because that's how deluded I was. And and I remember I didn't know my parents were going to be at my house, but they actually woke me up in the Uber because I was completely passed out, you know, the $300 tab to get back to my house from the rehab center. And and I was still trying to pretend like I was fine in a way. Like my family was like, "You're not okay." And so that's when they started the first attempt at the rehab. And then I remember there was like some wine and I just ran into the other room, grabbed the wine and just started chugging it until my stomach and this was my last drink. My stomach physically could not tolerate any more alcohol. I was in that much pain from the ulcers and other things in my stomach. And so when the alcohol hit my stomach, I like immediately upchucked it up to the ceiling, up to the bathroom, into the showers, into the floor. It was red wine everywhere in the bathroom. And I came out to my family and my husband and I said, they were like, "What were you doing in there?" I'm like, "Oh, nothing." And I just was trying to play it off. And then they went in there and they're like, "Jenna, can you come in here and look at this?" And I'm like, "Oh, I didn't clean it up. Crap. How did you forget to clean it up?" Was like my internal response to, you know, and they're trying to get me to see. And that's when that's when the the real conversation started of what is going on? Like this is very unlike you. And um and yeah, when you retell that story, does it um does it make you proud or sad before you what's your first feeling? Oh, it's it's a lot of sadness. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of sadness for the part of me that got to that point. Yeah. I think um you just keep going. Uh it's going to get easier and and you'll find some you'll start being proud of yourself. I'm proud of you to make it eight. You said eight years, right? Next week, eight day. Eight years and eight days. Yeah, pretty much. It's a big deal. It's a big deal. 30 30 days, 24 hours, 30 days, that first, you know, that month. And um those are all huge milestones, but eight years is a big big deal. Um, thank you. I want to ask this in a way that it honors you. Why do you think you first picked up I think two things. um experimentation, trying things. Um I'm a curious person just generally speaking. Um but but at the time when I started drinking, there was a there was a trauma happening in my life at the same time. And I didn't link those two until much further in my recovery and in the sort of medical journey of healing of okay this trauma that was happening to me when I was at that age right when I started experimenting with drinking it's no coincidence. Yeah. Are you safe enough to share what the trauma was? Um, I can share that it was a crime committed to me when I was in high school by um by someone that was trusted at the school and that that crime went un reported and then through a change in the statute of limitations in California and through sobriety and reading the steps I was able to report that crime. to the police and justice was served last year. Good for you. I'm proud of you. And I don't I don't want to dig into your business. A a lot of times when I ask people because a lot of our addictions come from some kind of trauma. Um and people need to share those traumas. One, it just gets it out on the table. Kind of feels good afterwards, but then your listeners now, the people that'll listen to your podcast, they'll be like, "Okay, I can relate to Jenna through everybody's got some kind of trauma." Um, and I don't I don't ever want the podcast to be repetitive in that. I just think it's an an important question to ask, an important response to give. So, it just levels the playing field a little bit for us all. You know, you and I met last night on a um on a WhatsApp group chat um because of this group that we're in. And um I'm I'm excited to meet you in a few weeks in California. Um, when this podcast comes out, we will have already met and I I put up yesterday where I just celebrated 15 years and you were like one of the first ones to comment and say something sweet and say, you know, encouragement. How do you um stay sober today? Do you do you lead other women? Do you um do you use your sobriety to um have a network where maybe you're a coach or something? What do you what do you do with your sobriety now to help others? Um, well, to stay sober, I I I committed to, I guess, self-actualizing to really learning who I am authentically, every part of me. And through that journey, it's has come an entire healing experience. And now it is my job and my life's work and mission to help people find their authentic self. And so I I have a business now where I help people heal through frequency work. And I start by addressing the layers of of burden, toxins, infections, much like me having chronic lime um and and and trauma work. And so so some of it is is frequencies to help people release it from their bodies physically. And that's done um almost in the background. I mean there is definitely physical symptoms that can come up and then I also work with their symptoms and their emotions um with sematic practices and parts work and coaching and um help people you know release release burdens and reclaim their their whole self and come into alignment. That's good. That's a lot. Um, so you know, I have this podcast under my nonprofit called Recovery Vow and we have a, you know, a book that I wrote called Marriage After Addiction and we have this podcast where we, you know, share the platform so that folks like you can come on and talk and then we have the Recovery Vow Collective where we're this community. I I would love to um serve you however I can to um to give the people you work with or or maybe the people that I work with, give them connections to you um because of what you're doing. So if if people wanted to connect, how do they is there a way to connect with you? Yes. And first, thank you so much for having me on this podcast and giving me this opportunity to share my story. It's my first You say that like it's almost over with. That's not over with yet. I got you for a while. Okay. [snorts] Um [laughter] Okay. [clears throat] So I would So to connect, um there's there's two ways I'm doing. I do one-on-one sessions, both live Zoom sessions and remote. like while you're sleeping, you can receive the frequencies to work on the symptoms and what's underneath the symptoms in the background. And then I also do group um group sessions and I have a Patreon group community. And so there's frequency sessions that are every couple weeks. And so it's a live call where you receive frequencies that remove um whatever the item is of the week. We've done influenza, we've done mold and and [snorts] micotoxins. And then there's also articles um a few times a week on um different layers of of health um various toxins, infections, how epigenetics play a role in genetics, autoimmunity, how that ties in and just um I'm just presenting information um to people on the various um barriers to to complete wellness. So is this a this this all this that you're saying? It sounds it's way over my head. you're like doctor level. Is this like a a license or some kind of uh degree that you hold that that gives you the ability to do this? It's a it's a methodology that I've come up with along the way of healing myself. So, it's I've learned I learned a lot of different healing modalities from different practitioners. It was a really extensive 15-year journey of physical health. And um and I I as I went through the layers, I kept saying like, "Do I have every illness that's ever like I mean, I just can't believe it." Like I mean, people there are certain people in my life that thought I was faking and and making it up as can happen with Lyme disease. And there was a part of me that wasn't sure because it was so mysterious and so everchanging and so never ending it seemed. And um and so I I ju and I saw so many different practitioners. I'm like if I ever do get all better, I'm I'm going to just be healing. I'm going to be helping so many people. I'm going to help as many people as I can because I've learned so many different things. And that actually that that little goal I had actually materialized um in the last few years where I've now learned to combine something I learned called muscle testing which um is something you can do remotely or you can do it in person and like chiropractors use it but it allows me to tap into your um body's wisdom remotely. So I with your permission of course I would test you and say okay can you do that right now? I mean, if I paid you. Yeah, I can do it right now. How much does it cost? Well, that's I don't I don't know. I don't sell it just like that, but Well, I mean, I I don't I want to pay you for your service, but I want to see what that looks like. I've never heard of anything that you're talking about, I don't think. So, make it do it. Okay. Um Okay. So, you talk about something that you wanted to work either to remove or to work towards. Like I want to be faster or I want to heal my shoulder. Faster or feel my shoulder? Like yeah. Are you moving towards something you want to do? Um you know run faster, lift more, work longer hours or are you moving away from a symptom like my my knee hurts or I don't sleep well. I don't sleep well. Okay. I do not sleep well. I wake up a lot. Okay. So I would in a session I would ask you as much as you had to share on that to get as much information from your perspective as possible and then once the energy was there I would I would muscle test you. So I would say okay um what Eric's describing how he's categorizing everything he's just described how many priorities can I test right now that are are contributing to that? And I would find a few. Let's see. Okay, right now I'm finding seven layers. And so then, and I won't do this actually, but I'll do a hypothetical. So then I would go through those seven layers and say, what are they? And it would be a combination of some infections maybe and it could be um past infections, you know, um when viruses when we're no longer in acute infection, there's still toxicity from viruses left over. So, it could be that or toxins, plastics, there's various types. And then possibly some stored trauma and maybe a subconscious false belief like maybe you're telling yourself um I have to sleep by 8:00 p.m. or I will not be successful the next day. and your higher self is like that's not true. He he doesn't have to hold himself to that such rigor and we want to we want to open him up to more possibilities. So it would be that would be a layer to uncover that that subconscious false belief. And so and there and there could be some autoimmunity in there. And so then with that list and with the actual list you would probably identify it would make sense like people always are they know because I can also tell them when they got it and they it's interactive. So this actually started 11 years ago. Maybe you got it outside at a park and you might say you know what I did get sick after that park. So there's there's it's a the collaborative process. And then um and then once I have the list, I use skills that I learned in Raiki training. So I did I did a few Raiki courses to intentionally send frequencies that matched exactly that precise recipe that your body has asked for and clear those those priorities. And then in each session, we make more progress in clearing more priorities until there are no no longer any barriers. And then so you're you're you're digging into the you said the psyche of my mind um to help me understand the things that are causing me to be this way, whether it's thought, past trauma, whatever. Um in that, do you think it has anything to do with my past trauma with drugs and alcohol? Cuz it's just weird. Like let's say last week I went to bed at 10:00. I woke up at 11:30 and I thought it was like 6:00 the next day. I thought I got a full night's sleep. And so when I got up at 11:30, I'm I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I've only been asleep for an hour and a half, but it feels like I've been asleep for eight hours." And so I'm like looking around the room and it reminded me now it reminds me of just being awake on, you know, cocaine or something. Um but then I could always go back to sleep, but it takes like three or four hours. So sometimes I wouldn't go back to sleep until early early early early in the morning and get like really really three deep hours of sleep and then a lot of times um I wake up between the hours of 3 and 5 every morning. Every morning and I'll read my B or I'll have my Bible read to me or um I'll of course scroll social or that's when my mind will turn on. It's like all right, what what is something you can do? what's going to be the next thing you can do with your nonprofit or what what what are you going to change? It's and it's very much like I took um things I used to think about with with how to get that next drug and and the the uh the things that I'm doing in my life now have become this new high for me. Does any of that make sense? Yeah, actually. So, so if we were in a session I I see like two lanes opening up right now. So, one is a I would want to ask you more about why you feel like you need more sleep because what it sounded like you said was that you weren't getting very many hours of sleep, but you still feel refreshed. Mhm. So, I mean, I guess it's like I'm supposed to check a box like every person should have six to eight hours of sleep at night time, but it doesn't. Mine's not in a row, if that makes sense. Yeah. And that and that could be your design. Like and I and I often like look at shoulds. What's underneath a should? Like a person should get. It's like who says you should? Did someone teach you that? Because or did your body's wisdom is it showing you that? Mhm. And so it would be um understanding if you really do want more sleep, if your body wants more sleep or if your mind wants more sleep and and finding out which where that voice is coming from and that that would be a process. And then and and then also with the frequency work um you're bringing it up. So there is something there that otherwise we wouldn't be talking about it. And so then I would muscle test your your higher self's wisdom or your subconscious wisdom. What is he really talking about? Like and then we would start removing blockages that would make it easier for you to understand what it is you're working through. Yeah. It's like I can't turn my brain off. like I'm always thinking, but I'm not OCD. I'm not um autistic. It's I I guess it's just the way I'm wired. Like I can't stop thinking at all times. Yeah. So it would be I can like there's maybe something in your head that's pulling your energy up there when you want it in your body where you can relax and and just lay in your bed and enjoy how comfortable it feels there. And it could be and this is where the muscle testing would come in. It could be parasites pretty pretty normal or plastics when we have toxicity or infection. That freaks me out a little bit when you say that like I ate some bugs and plastics. But I mean, I see what you're saying. Like I I I understand what you're saying. It just I've never had anybody say that to me before. Like it's a possible parasite. Yeah. Because cuz you're your energy is being pulled up to your head. So it could be something external that's also attracting that energy. That's and then and then it's also patterns. And so we also work through patterns. And so um and so like uh subconsciously we could believe that our brain has all the answers. And that's a re and that's a false belief. Our intuition has all the answers. Our body has all the answers. And so the more more we rewire ourselves to realize that our body knows what to do. Our brain is is great for complex problems, but we don't need it on a a minute-to-minute basis. It can actually relax for most the time. And our intuition can lead us through most of what our day entails. And that gives our brain a break to where it's actually more um impactful when we do apply it in critical thinking. So, I'm going to go back to the beginning of this question like five minutes ago. Do you use this when you're helping people um find recovery? Like, are you using using some of this this these methods um as maybe they're walking through the 12 steps, especially on the amend side? Like people I feel like that's a that gets into your brain. Um or do you keep them separate? you doing this for anybody? I I addressed it exactly how the person presents it to me, what they want to work with. So, I've never had anyone present it like, "Can you help me with my addiction?" or "Can you help me with my recovery in exactly those terms? I' I've worked with people in recovery and there and how it's usually presented to me is I'm I want to stay sober. I want to live a sober life, but the symptom is is, you know, is hindering me, whether it's uterine pain or knee pain." And so I work with them on on what else is coming up. And it could be anxiety, depression, um, and insomnia as well. I feel like a lot of people deal with anxiety and depression if you had to put a percentage on it. [clears throat] Uh, I very high. Yeah. And I'm saying that the reason I say that to tie it back to this is people that are in addiction are usually depressed. People in recovery are usually anxious. Mhm. I don't know if you feel the same or if you agree. Yeah. Um I can see that. Yeah. I was depressed because of the like maybe trauma or because I was drinking too much or drugging too much and it just kept me in this depressive state of mind. Like nothing made me happy except for me getting what I wanted. And then now that I've got the things that I want, my anxiety comes from God, this is so awesome. I never want to lose it. Or what else can I do? What else can I do? What else can I do? Um so yeah, it's like a I'm not depressed today. I'm anxious like I you know my wife picks on me because I bounce my knee all the time. I can't stop balancing my knee. So yeah, we kind of got we we kind of got, you know, off topic a little bit, but I don't care. This is recovery about podcast and people are going to listen to this. They're going to say, "Okay, I like what Jenna is saying. Some of this is making sense and maybe I need to look at it a different way." And that's where I want people that are listening to this podcast today to understand is that recovery is possible in many different ways. Jenna got sober because she had a husband and a sister that cartered her off two hours away to go to treatment and then she came back and upchucked bottle of wine and then you went back to treatment again or that's when you just started going to meetings. Okay. So that's different than mine. I had to get flown to Florida um completely out of no I had no idea where I was at when I landed there. So I and Uber didn't exist and cell phones didn't look like they did like they do now. So that's what makes ours a little bit different. But um the what I'm saying in all of this is that there are so many different ways to get sober. Um we just have to keep off offering those ways. I think you're doing that. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. So, as we wrap this up, um, I want to land the plane with saying, um, and it doesn't have to be people in your network, people that listen to this episode, you're going to give them the best advice they ever got in their whole life. What's the best advice you could give someone today, Jenna? Take it one day at a time. one step at a time. Break it down into the smallest increment you need and be curious. Being open curious everything, the entire process, yourself, what you're learning, your higher power, how the universe reveals itself to you, where where your passion is, where your path is, everything. It's all and if you if you're take a curious approach, it's it's fun. It's it's it's um it's a beautiful gift. It it makes I mean I there's many times and it's been a very hard journey, but there are so many times where I'm like I'm so lucky I had a drinking problem so I could find aa and find recovery and live this new life. I just I had no idea how much I needed it to learn how to recover. Yeah. Um I think that's beautiful. I think it's beautiful. Um, do you in your heart of hearts, um, let me try to I want to phrase this the the right way. Give me a second. Do you believe that people um can have a higher power of their own or do you believe that most successful people in recovery have to accept God as their higher power? But you can just speak for yourself. Um well, okay. So, God has been my higher power before recovery, throughout recovery, and still is. But the way I would describe and understand God has changed immensely. Um the power that I know God to have today is completely different than I understood the power to be before before recovery and especially the power in my life and the power to work through me and to step into my role as a as a divine co-creator which I did not have the the courage to do before. Um no that wasn't a a pastor fail question. I think I want people to know that they have to have God as their higher power. There's no ifands or some people when they they get it was like, you know, you gota you you walk into a a room of anonymous folks and they don't want you talking about recovery, but they want you to 12step. Um, and they want you to find a higher power. And it, oh, it can be a door or it can be, you know, a a thing or whatever. But I just don't get I didn't get that part of it. And so I'm not knocking AA or NA or any A. I'm saying that it's okay that you think that God is your higher power. I think everybody should say God is their higher power. God is you understand him today because you're like you just said your understanding of God four years ago is different than what it is eight years in. That's true. But I but I've met people in recovery that have that have helped me and and been a leader to me and they and they have had a higher power. That's the ocean or the waves. And I I can't relate to that directly. But what I've learned through them and through being open and curious is God can actually reveal himself to that person by starting as a wave. And so that person may start by saying the wave is powerful. It's my higher power. And then God will slowly reveal to that person that God is more than just the wave. That God is all. And that's part of the open co-creation process of where you start and where you end. Um well, I would say likely not be the same. No, I I agree with you. And I'm not going to not like that person just because Yeah. You know what I mean? I want the same for them as I want for you and myself. It's just a question. It's just a question. Um, thank you so much for coming on this podcast. I know it was so short notice, but we had somebody that couldn't come in from like North Carolina and so I told Camera Day, I'm like, "Look, we we got a p we we got somebody's going to do the podcast. It's going to fill this spot, but I need to do it on Riverside." And you see how bad that went in the beginning of this, [laughter] so forgive me for that. But um the fact that you made it here, you said yes last night makes me know and believe that the God of the ocean and the God that we understand put you here for a reason. And that reason being that somebody's going to listen to this message because you said yes and it's going to hopefully change your life. Um I truly hope so. Yeah, I do too. Now, we'll be together in a few weeks and I want to make sure that u that we get to hang out. Um, but yeah, I think that we can network and resource together and I can just share some of the things I'm doing from a very practical side with with my work and my nonprofit and however I can resource uh or be available to you uh and help you. I look forward to it. That would be awesome. I love any final thoughts, any questions for me before we wrap it up. Um, if for those that are interested, www.quantumbbodyalacchemy.com Quantumbbodyalacal alchemy.com is my website where you can book one-on-one sessions, both remote and group, and find out how to be part of our group, Good Vibes Healing Collective, and uh and join our group sessions. And [gasps] can I ask you a question? Sure. You're in California, right? Mhm. Um do a lot of people you work with, do they is that California sober thing? Is that a real thing? You feel like I've heard it. I've heard it defined two ways. When you say California sober, do you mean with marijuana or do you mean some alcohol? Because I've heard I mean no alcohol, maybe some marijuana. Yeah, I do think that's a thing out here. Yeah, I would say it's a thing. Okay. Yeah, some some are open about it, some are not open about it, but I think it's pretty Yeah, I would say it's out here. But there are plenty of people that are not doing that. Yeah. No, no, no. I just It's not called Georgia Sober. It's called Everything. It's called California Sober Notes, you know. So, I didn't know how how big that was. Um I just watched Charlie Shane's documentary and [gasps] it just made me think of that. Have you seen it started? Is that where it started? No, no, no. Charlie Shane's documentary. It was just like, you know, looking back over his life and, you know, his his addiction to drugs and alcohol and life itself and Tiger's Blood and Winning and all that kind of stuff, you know, Charlie Shane. But it was um it was it was cool. Um, but anyway, I'm coming out there. I can't wait to spend some some time with you and and um the rest of the Quantum Group. But uh but yeah, if you have any questions for me, you can email me and uh let's stay in touch. Okay. Yeah. Thank you so much for for having me here and thank you to your audience for for listening and and the welcome feeling I have. Thank you. Yep. You're welcome, Jenna. Thank you so much.