The Difference Between an Apology and Amends

How do you repair a relationship when “sorry” is no longer enough? In recovery, there comes a point where apologies stop carrying weight and start sounding like empty words to the people you love. In this episode, Eric Kennedy sits down with Jeff Breedlove, CEO of American Addiction Recovery Association, to talk about one of the hardest truths in addiction recovery: trust is rebuilt through consistent actions over time, not words. Jeff shares his journey through 30 years of active addiction, 9 years of sobriety, and the reality of rebuilding relationships with his family. Together, they unpack the difference between apologies and living amends, why “I’m sorry” can become triggering for loved ones, and what genuine reconciliation actually looks like. Whether you are rebuilding trust or waiting to see real change in someone you love, this conversation will challenge and encourage you. Have you experienced the difference between apologies and living amends? Share your thoughts in the comments.

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Organization: American Addiction Recovery Association
Website: https://eliminatethewhisper.org/
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• Transcript

  Jeff, you were simultaneously one of the most arrogant guys in the whole world and one of the most insecure guys in the whole world. So, on the one hand, I was just saying I'm sorry because I could brush them off. On the other hand, I was saying I'm sorry because I felt like I was such a humiliation and an [music] embarrassment to them. But here's what I've come to realize. The super majority of those I'm [music] sorry I didn't really mean. They were just words. And and I had to work through that in recovery. As I've developed over the past nine years a better relationship with my higher power, I've come to realize that part [music] of the reason the I'm sorry weren't working is there was no sincerity behind them. They were just manipulative tools [music] to get me out of an immediate situation that I didn't want to be in. [music] On today's episode, I have a good friend that I made connection with this past year at our state capital in Georgia, uh, Mr. Jeff Breedlove. And Jeff, uh, is going to tell us some about some of his work and the things that he does. But we're going to be talking specifically today on our podcast where we go back and forth and have conversations about certain topics. And today's topic, we're we're continuing um in our collective with the apology. You know, the apology, how it lands, and what the difference is between apology and making amends. And then on the second half of our call, that'll be for our collective subscribers. We're going to go a little bit deeper into this. So, I want to dive right in and say good morning, Jeff. How are you doing this morning? Well, good morning, Eric. And what a privilege to be here with you and and all the the the viewers and listeners on the podcast. Yeah, I'm doing well. I uh I just came back from a tremendous uh statewide recovery leadership summit in Florida with our friends at Fidians for Recovery. Hundreds of people from across Florida gathered together talking about the addiction epidemic and recovery. Uh just been a great week so far and excited to be with you today. Absolutely. We're glad to have you here, buddy. Um, as we just dive into this, we're just having conversation. This this is you and I sitting in the same room but just in different places. Okay. But the the main statement that I want to talk about here um as we open up is, you know, you said I'm sorry or we said I'm sorry. Um, we meant it and we've said it a number of times. Maybe it's thousands of times. Um, and they're still just not okay. our our people, our loved ones, our family, our spouses, they're just they're just not okay. Uh and do we really understand why? So, that's what this episode's going to be about. You know, saying I'm sorry and the sorry actually starting to matter and not just being another word. It's not getting us out of trouble anymore. So, we're going to go into that. So, I've got a couple questions I want to I want to read to you, Jeff, and just hear your response to it and then we'll just kind of piggy back off each other from that. Okay. Absolutely. Absolutely. What is it like for you? I mean, because you can tell us about your your past and and your addiction um and in the work you're doing, but what was it like to keep apologizing and feel like it just wasn't working? Did you find yourself saying it over and over and over again? Oh, you know, of course I did. I mean, so so maybe I can level set by saying, you know, I I am a person in long-term recovery and and I was in active addiction for 30 years. Uh there were different phases and times I wasn't using, but over the course of 30 years, I was in active addiction. So, you bet I said I'm sorry a lot over 30 years. And I, by the way, just so they know, uh the viewers and listeners, I've been in recovery for nine years. And um you know, I've been married to my wife for 32 years. Uh we have a 26-year-old son. And of course my mom and dad they have passed uh away but they were of course a big part of um of my addiction journey and and recovery journey. You know for me I think the most profound part of my response to to that really great question you just asked is looking back on it. So, it's easier to look back, right, in hindsight. And you I think at the time I was just lying and manipulating. Um, you know, I I was diagnosed by my primary counselor at at MAR where I went and got treatment, who, by the way, is a person with lived experience. He's in recovery, which I love that my counselor was a person with lived experience. Now, Matt Matt Irwin is his name. Matt would say, "Jeff, you were simultaneously one of the most arrogant guys in the whole world and one of the most insecure guys in the whole world." And that just was completely bad. So, on the one hand, I was just saying, "Thank you because I thought I could just brush my family off." On the other hand, I was say, I mean, I'm sorry because I could brush them off. On the other hand, I was saying I'm sorry because I felt like I was such a humiliation and an embarrassment to them. But here's what I've come to realize. The super majority of those I'm sorry I didn't really mean. No, they just they're just words. They were just words. And and I had to work through that in recovery when I got in touch with my higher power who I choose to call Jesus Christ. And you know, as I got as I've developed over the past nine years a better relationship with my higher power, I've come to realize that part of the reason the I'm sorry weren't working is there was no sincerity behind them. They were just manipulative tools to get me out of an immediate uh situation that I didn't want to be in. I will tell you the opposite of that is also true. Um, and it's complex for me and I get a little bit emotional about it. Um, we love emotion, Jeff. You know, I want you to be emotional. When the last time I saw my father alive was the day the night before I checked into Mar for treatment. Uh my father uh and my mom uh went into uh they took a big pit hit hit on their middle class uh retirement plan to to pull the money out early to make it possible for me to go to Mar. That meant my sister and my son ultimately and and and the inheritance of that of that middle class thing took a hit because there was going to be less money because of the penalties occurred to get me treatment. So my family suffered immediately financially to help me and we have this family dinner and it's also important for your listeners to know that at that point in my life I was 50 years old. on 59 right now and I was had been charged with a felony. A lot of people have been charged with crimes. I made the news for six nights in a row in Atlanta and several of those nights I was the lead story. Um because not because of who I am but because of who I worked for at the time, the elected official that I was chief of staff to at the time. So, my my arrest uh and addiction played out publicly in the media uh and on social media and um my family was feeling all the things you could imagine they were feeling. And um off I go to treatment for a minimum 90 days and have dinner with my family at at our home the night before. um while I was at MAR, you share your life story and it's all men. And if you do it right, it's an impactful situation. And I had two roommates ahead of me that that have been in the program longer than me that that that that were doing it right. They encouraged me to do it right. And I watched other guys do it right and wrong before it was my turn. And I'm standing in a circle one day. I mean, literally a circle of men sitting in chairs around me. And I'm standing in the middle of the circle at 50 years old sharing feelings for the first time and historical facts of my of my life and and feelings about my life. And I had never shared these with any human being. And I talked about the trauma between my father and I. And um that was hard for me. And um did you say your father passed away? The I'm getting there. That's the punch line here. So, so Mar says Mar says, "Well, we're going to have the family counselor get with you and your dad and your mom, talk about this trauma." And remember, I'm not in recovery yet. I'm in treatment. Yep. I'm like, "Well, whatever. I was pretty, you know, I don't care. Sounds good to me." Three days later, they knock on the door of the meeting I'm in, and it's the head of the men's program. And meetings are pretty sacrosanked at Mar. you don't interrupt meetings. And uh Doug Brush says, "I need to see Jeff." Now, all the guys, you know, this is a professionals program. These are these are white collar professionals, but they're like just like high school. What did Jeff do? And even Jeff is like, "What what did I do?" Yeah. And I intellectually knew I hadn't broken any rules, but I was still insecure in my journey. And I'm like, "Oh my god, what have I done now?" And when I sat down with Doug in the privacy of his office, I knew right away I wasn't in trouble, but something wasn't right. And he said, "You know, your father's had a heart attack and he is on life support and he will he's not going to make it." And uh, of course, Mar had Mar is 50 years old last year and they were 40ome years old then. And they had protocols for this kind of stuff. It wasn't the first time that it happened. And and to make a long story short, the last time I saw my father uh technically alive was on life support at a hospital and uh he couldn't communicate, of course. And my sponsor and all my roommates and one of my roommates, by the way, is still a heart surgeon. Talk about a providential thing with God. And Dr. Mike, he's in Kentucky. Uh Dr. Dr. Mike said, Jeff, he was out there at the hospital. Your dad can hear you. Now, you know, I think Dr. Mike was telling the truth, but either either way, the amends that I made with my father was one-sided on on earth because he couldn't talk back to me in a human capacity. And I got pretty mad at God after that. Um, I'm still in treatment. Haven't really really fully found recovery. And you mean to tell me, God, I sit here and share with these men all these secrets and all these feelings and you take my dad away from me before we even work it out. I I I had a problem with God. And so that thank you that thank you that that that I'm sorry and and working on that one, that's something I've worked on over the past nine years because I've had to come to terms with it was God's plan, not my plan. and and and how did God want me to react in recovery and in my life to my dad going back to glory and back to heaven that way. That one is very different. The rest of them are even more difficult because my son and my wife and my sister, you know, they still struggle with uh my sincerity with the pain I put them through. And I want to say right here, Eric, I deeply believe policywise, medicalwise, faith-wise, and and and humanwise that addiction is a family disease. And it impacts families as much as it impacts any peer survivor. And my brothers and sisters in recovery who do not think it's a family disease, they need to change their minds and and they need to embrace the fact that our disease and it is a disease. We're not bad people. I'm not a bad person. Uh I have a very bad disease uh of which there is no cure. Um but our families suffer too. And we have to embrace that and and and honor that. Especially Christians, especially Christians in recovery. We need to we seek forgiveness, we need to give forgiveness. We seek grace, we need to give grace. We seek understanding, we need to give understanding. So part of my my I'm sorry has also been to understand both intellectually and in my heart that even though I wasn't a bad person and even though I didn't want to do these things, I was still causing pain and hurt and harm to others from their perspective in It's really hard to undo 30 days of pain. It's especially hard to undo 30 years of pain. So, I was going to ask, how long were you in your active addiction before you got point? Oh, yeah. It was 30 years. And it's it's not funny. There's nothing funny about it, of course. It's like it's sort of it's sort of interesting, you know. It went I went years using Oh, and my drug of choice, so everybody knows, was crack cocaine. I really didn't do anything else at all. But uh um for many years, nobody knew. Not my elected official bosses, uh one of who was a former US attorney, not my spouse. Nobody knew. It was clear nobody knew. Man, I can't I can't get over that. That stuff made me so It was my drug of choice, too, at the end. And I It made me so nervous. Like, I can't even imagine trying to walk into the Capitol high on crack. So, the fact that you could hide it, I could. And that but but that was weird. And then and then I there's seven years in there where I don't do any drug at all. And my wife and I think now at this point she knows at this point I've lost my first job to the disease and we could go down that whole path of stigma and how I got a job and why people weren't saying anything. That's a whole thing too. And we tried to outrun the disease geographically like so many people. And I lived in several states out west. They were all out west. and uh came back home in 2002 from trying to outrun the disease for a few years and just didn't do didn't do drugs and my wife and I naively think well I'm cured and I beat this and everything's great and it kind of kind of from one perspective was great for seven years and then the last 11 years it was not great at all in the last 11 years was probably the most dangerous 11 years of the 30 and I wasn't using a lot but boy I was binging for two or three days and it was out of control and I was running up debts and I was stealing. You know the hardest I'm sorry was I stole $77 from my son. He had a little Tootsie Roll old school Tootsie Roll jar. If if you're my age, you remember those. And um I remember Yeah. And and they were it was just full of coins and I I I I took those coins out of the house when they weren't home one day and took them up to the the grocery store and put it in the change thing and they gave me $77 and I went and bought crack with that. I stole money from my son and I didn't even hide it because I was on a binge. I just left that Tootsie Roll jar on his bed and he of course when he came home he knew and because he was in high school and um u I'm a thief but not just a thief. I stole from my son. Now the hardest thing has been trying to repair that relationship and convince him that I'm truly sorry and truly healed uh in the sense that there's no cure for addiction. We all understand that. But I'm in a long-term recovery uh pattern, protocol, lifestyle, whatever you want to call it. It's up to you. But that's been the hardest one, rebuilding his trust and love because, you know, we adopted our son for those that don't know. And he had already been through his own lived experience, his own trauma uh with what he went through. And now his father steals from him and is a quote unquote drug addict. And uh just imagine how a high school kid that's been through his own lived experience deals with that. And I I will tell everybody this. Everything I've just shared with you is sort of the the hard side of all those things. Um, my worst day in recovery with my worst fight with my wife or my worst negativity with my son is better than any day in active addiction. uh the chance, the privilege, the opportunity to to be present uh at at college graduations, at uh a doctor's visit, at uh a hike, and the chance to earn their trust back is probably a journey much like the disease itself. While there's no cure for addiction, if we follow the protocol we've agreed to with our sponsor and those that helped us, if we do it every day, we're going to be okay. Well, every day, I think also you have to earn that trust of those closest to you. You have to be willing. And I I'll say this, Doug Brush at Mah, you know, he would tell the men, still tells the men, one word, surrender. Surrender. Now, I didn't know what Doug Brush meant the first probably 80 days at MAR. I do now. Um, I believe that there's multiple pathways to recovery. I do, too. I believe that anybody can recover. That they don't have to be a Christian. They can be an atheist. They can be agnostic. They can be any faith they want to be. If they want to be a faith at all, anybody can recover. I want to be clear on that. But for Christians, which is who I identify with, that is my community. You know, we we have to surrender our shame and our arrogance. Everything that was a negative influence that we were letting rule us to Christ and when we surrender to Christ and say Christ also died for my sins and by the way it's not a sin to have a disease right but we that's a good point I never thought about that yeah it's not a sin to have a disease but we did sinful things in our disease [clears throat] and things in congruent with the Christian philosophy or teachings so that's complex too but once once we process that that I did things that are not glorifying God and not, you know, that I'm that I'm just not proud of as a as a person. That's what we make amends for and apologize for, which are two different things. We don't apologize for having a disease or making an amendment for having disease. We we apologize for the actions that we took within that disease. And when you get to that point, or when I got to that point, I could surrender. And once you surrender, you're stronger. I promise you that if you're listening to this and you're wondering the the minute you surrender and turn it over to the higher power of your choice, especially if you are with me and your higher power is Christ, go ahead and surrender to Christ. just let it go and trust your sponsor and trust your your pastor and and trust your lay leaders at your church that that that support a recovery program because you will be stronger than you ever were because I promise you this, it is true. You know, they started AA in 1935 and Cocaine Anonymous didn't even come around to the 80s or Comic Anonymous after that. I mean, we're not It needs to evolve. Yeah, we're not the center of the universe. No, Christ is. Yeah. Um, you know, a you you've covered a lot and I thank you for sharing that part of your story. Um, you know, when I I I was there with you, I could see you walking in there talking to your dad and um when you were there uh and and you knew he could hear you, did you feel like um it was important for you to say, "I'm sorry, Dad." or did you feel more um energized to even though and you had anger with God but [clears throat and snorts] you know the the the I'm sorry is kind of uh accepting responsibility in your actions you know and and having some kind of remorse but the amends part is like where you you you know people talk about living amends now you have this opportunity to prove to your dad like I'm going to change now he may not see it here physically but you're going to live it out forever um I I can relate to the lady that I rented Um, uh, I used to steal her. She had cancer. She had pain medicine she would take. And then she passed away while I was in treatment. And so I I remember going to her graveside when I got back, which seems kind of morbid, but that I just had to go pay respects. She was also my babysitter when I was a kid. Um, but my last memory with her was stealing her pain pills because I was high on crack and just an idiot. Um, and so I I remember making a promise that I I wasn't going to say I'm sorry, Miss Audrey. I was going to I was going to prove to you by living this out. And that's the difference between the apology and the uh living amends. So, you did really good um kind of expressing that from personal point of view. And then, you know, you know, moving into understand, you know, you've got to have this living amends now with your son who is still physically here. By the time someone gets sober, the um I'm sorry has done been devalued down to zero. Okay? So it it means absolutely nothing. So when you come back from the store and you leave the empty piggy bank, tots your old piggy bank on the bed, you know that sorry is not going to matter to him. It's not going to forgive that you went and blew the $77. And and and the same with with your wife. um how how did you how did you respond to him um or and your wife using that story? Um what happened? What happened when they found out? That's a great question and and and it was hard but you're absolutely right. I'm glad you said that. You know, at some point it is fascinating. At some point the the the I'm sorry becomes just absolutely worthless to them and it's just words. In fact, it's probably triggering words to them. And but to them, I mean anybody hearing it on the other end from anybody. Now, I do think at one point psychologically they want to hear those words, but they don't really care about those words. They care about your actions. Your your living amends, your living your living actions. So, I do think what was hard for me to appreciate and it may be hard for all my brothers and sisters to appreciate is one thing we can't change. There is one thing even our with the power of Christ has not granted anybody I know this this gift we can't change time so we have to surrender to the reality that time is what it is and we have to have the the strength to give people who we have caused pain time to process it on their timeline not our timeline. So the first reality of that situation was it took a long time for him and her to get past their immediate anger and rage. Yeah. Hurt. And and I had to let I had to let them have that. And I had to endure all the words I heard. But it took I was so sick at MAR that they told my wife on the exit interview that I needed to stay and go for two more years. Now impatient well I got to come home but that was only to sleep. They they had a whole schedule for me seven days a week of meetings. my sponsor was involved and I would had to deal with report to my sponsor and some of the meetings were at MAR, some were in the community at the A meetings, but I I I had to do these things and that was the option I was given. They were convinced I would I would just have a setback and um and my wife said okay. Now, that lasted not two years, but a year and eight months. And during that time, it was sort of like the wilderness years. But, but it then they called me in and her and we're there and they're like, "Well, it's time to go to work." And um long story short, uh I did go to work. And um of course, I I I I work in advocacy and policy. Uh, of course now I'm with the American Addiction Recovery Association, which is at eliminate the whisper.org, by the way. Check us out. But, um, when I got my first paycheck, uh, and please understand, I was had no access to money [clears throat] and and and I got my first, rightfully so. Rightfully so. Uh, but I talked to my wife and we went to a bank and um she she she brought out um well $80 in rolls of quarters and and we took out the other, you know, three and I I gave my son $77 in in coins back and tried to explain to him what was behind the symbolism. um what it meant. Why am I handing him these coins back in the form of coins and not just a a $77 deposit in an electronic account? No, I think that's important. I'm glad that you did that. I did that. I don't know that he appreciated it right away. I think he appreciates it today as a college graduate. Uh he's an Eagle Scout. he's he's gone on and grown up a little bit and um I think he does understand what I was trying to do with that gesture. And I think again humility is if surrender is a strength, humility is a strength too, especially for for men who profess to believe in Christ. Uh I'm still arrogant. Don't don't misunderstand. I mean, I'm still human, but but I'm also try to be more humble and um and that was a very humbling thing to do. I hope he appreciate the gesture sincerely, but you have to be willing to do things like that. Yeah. Well, the healthy selfishness side of that too, um Jeff, is that you made it okay in your your mind that you did that step. You did that in the way that um it was in coin, not just in cash or electronic deposit. And it was your way of saying um I'm making amends with you. You don't have to forgive me, but I have to. This is how I'm forgiving myself. So that you can check that box. It may not be completely checked or scribbled in, but you you get to start that process and then move on to the next box and not live in that because that could be a hangup, right? That can be a part where you're like, I'm just going to keep on. And thanks for saying that, Eric, because I was more focused on Jack's understanding of it. But for my own personal recovery, and you said it, you hit the nail on the head. Uh, for my side of the street, so to speak, that was important for me and my personal recovery to make that that gesture of an amends. And that and that that that was a that was a a literal physical amends with physical activity. I want to just remind you guys that um living amends are the way to go. Apologies don't count anymore and you have to make these living amends and in the second half we'll be talking again about some of those amends. But for you uh that are not uh a part of our school platform yet, please go sign up uh and join our classroom on on school. You can download the app and find our recovery by collective there. If you're not already following us on any social media platform for us geriatrics, you can go to Facebook for that younger generation. You can go to Instagram. We are also on Tik Tok and we put out content all the time. Uh but on school, we'll get daily, weekly, monthly, and calls like this with clinical professionals, people in recovery, and just normal everyday people that you need to hear from. Jeff, can you tell us how the listeners touch base with you? Oh, absolutely. Thank you for that, Eric. So, the American Addiction Recovery Association or AAR, we are on all the major social media platforms, too. Um, all of them, Tik Tok, LinkedIn, uh, Instagram, Facebook, X, and we have a website, eliminatethewisper.org. But, you know, we we are, uh, building up a pretty good following nationwide because we we're based out of Georgia, but we work nationally. And we encourage you pick pick your social media platform that that you like. Follow us. We put out good policy stuff. We put out uh just things that that if you've been impacted by the epidemic, whether you're a peer, family, clinical, I believe it would bless you and you would bless us. So So check us out at our website eliminatethewisper.org or follow us on any social media platform.