This Marriage Shouldn’t Have Made It—But It Did | Recovery Vow Podcast

In this powerful episode of The Recovery Vow, Eric Kennedy sits down with Matt and Christina Spencer to share their honest and hope-filled journey through addiction, betrayal, and the slow rebuilding of a marriage that could have ended for good.

Matt opens up about his struggle with pornography and secret sin, battles that began in childhood and quietly eroded the foundation of their marriage. Christina shares the heartbreak of betrayal, the confusion of living in the aftermath, and the strength it took to begin healing while walking through her own pain.

Together, they talk about the hard decisions, the uncomfortable counseling sessions, the spiritual transformation, and what it means to truly forgive and rebuild. Their story is not just about surviving infidelity, it's about creating something entirely new, grounded in grace, accountability, and real intimacy.

If you’ve ever questioned whether your marriage is too broken or if healing is possible after betrayal, this episode is your answer.

Connect with us:
Socials: @‌RecoveryVow
Website: http://recoveryvow.com
Email: recoveryvow@gmail.com

New episodes every other Monday! Top ways to support this podcast:

• Give this video a thumbs up

• Subscribe to our channel

• Follow us on FB and IG

• Subscribe on Apple, Spotify, and Amazon Music

• Transcript

  [Music] Hey, thanks so much for watching the Recovery Vow podcast. Today I have Matt and Christina here from Valor and Vows. Uh we connected through the family here at Exo Marriage and that's where we're recording at this week is uh in South Lake at the Exo headquarters. But I want you just to sit back and listen to the ministry and the story that they're doing through Valor and Vows. But if you're not following them, you can go to Facebook, um you can go to YouTube, and you can email them at valorandvows@gmail.com. Did I say that correctly? You did. I said it correctly. And if you want to connect with us, you can email me at recoverybal@gmail.com. Check me out on all of the social media platforms. Uh and you can also subscribe to us on our YouTube channel. That's where you can help us the most. Subscribe. And if you've been called to give, just remember we are nonprofit. I would love for you to donate and become a partner of what we're doing here. All of the proceeds that come in go right back into this organization. and we build out more classes, more workshops, and everything for free so that we can find people that need addiction or need recovery from different types of addictions and we can find them right where they are. So, in this episode, you're going to hear um Matt and Christina talk a lot about uh their marriage uh the ministry they're they're serving with uh military and how they're helping those uh spouses and just what God has done through them in their ministry. So, thanks for joining us. I hope you'll enjoy this episode. Welcome to the Recovery Vow podcast. I'm your host, Eric Kennedy. All right, I got Matt and Christina with me today with Am I saying this right? Valor and vows. That is correct. Tell me where that name come from. Well, um, really it came because, you know, what is biblical valor? You know, it's having that courage to, you know, stand before God and honor the covenant that you have for him. So it's that same principle in our marriage and in in the military. Uh you know we um we just have been you know around this journey for so long and when we looked at the scope of you know our journey and then the journey of our people and and where you know God was taking us in this ministry. Yeah. It I just said oh my gosh. You know I came to him and I said what about Valor and vows? And he's like I love it. Do it. B and D. That was it. All right. So, what um what is Valor and Vows? What are you guys doing? If you wanted the person this in our audience listening today to know what your elevator speech is or what your pitch is, tell us and and don't be so brief like that, but you know, just tell us what Valor Bows is. What are you guys trying to reach with your your We just as a military chaplain and we like she said, we've been serving in the military for years now. We've noticed a tremendous gap in in military marriages when it comes to faith and the mission, you know, and how do you combine those two or how do you thrive through those two things? You know, we know there's an increased rate of divorce and issues within military marriages. So, how do we try to combat that? Well, that was our main focus, you know, was to take the experience that we've had, the the things I've worked with couples on in the military as a chaplain to say, "Hey, here's some biblical principles, some foundations that we can utilize or you can utilize. We can come alongside each other and and build healthy, strong marriages, regardless of what the mission set is." Because the the stigma in the military's always been, hey, it's tough to have a good thriving relationship because you're gone a lot or, you know, mission dictates over family at times and deployments, all these different things are thrown at us. And we're just told, well, that's just how it is. It's going to be tough. Well, they can be tough, but can also you can also thrive through those things, but how do you do that? So that was kind of our our basis for writing Valor and Vows and putting together a platform to be able to to teach couples and to say, "Hey, here are the principles you can utilize to keep your priorities straight to where you don't fall into some of those traps, you know, that that a lot of people fall into when it comes to military marriages. So you're just trying to help. Okay, use me as an example. Me and my wife Kristen, I'm a soldier in the military. We're having XYZ issue. Does the military place us in direct contact with you or how how does a person is in service find you and then how do y'all walk with them through whatever their issue is? For us, we do a lot of you intentional engagement. So, I kind of look at it like this. If you're a maybe a pastor on the outside, not within the military, typically, not saying you don't do outreach, but typically folks are coming to you for spiritual care. They're coming to you to learn. They're coming to you for a reason. You know, they're they're seeking out, you know, the church and and and the word. Our job more so is to go into the units, go into the lives of these folks, whether they're looking for it or not, and just be that that beacon of of some light to them, be that, you know, person of faith to them. You know, bring them to some type of spiritual fitness for their life. So to me it's engaging with your folks, building those relationships, you know, building that trust factor with you with your your folks and, you know, showing them whether it be through words or actions, the importance of a strong spiritual foundation, whether you've ever thought about that in your life, marriage or not, you know, here's some principles. Here are some things that you really need to consider if you want your your marriage and your relationship and your life to get on track. And so it's us seeking those folks. Now, yeah, we have people come to us. If we have a couple who's, you know, in a in a situation where they want to talk to somebody or need to talk to somebody, the military is really good about uh, you know, promoting those resources, whether it be the chaplain corps, you know, to come to see us or whether it be a mental health outlet or, you know, uh, um, what's another one? Good family advocacy. You know, so there's different branches of help sources out there that our folks are are well aware of. It's just what sets us apart as military chaplain is we have that 100 100% confidentiality piece and that is bound by law. So that's when I say 100% I mean 100%. There's nothing that you and your spouse could come and talk to the chaplain about that that chaplain is going to divulge any of that information. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. So that gives them that safe outlet, you know, to come and talk and to get the help they need. If we don't have the solution, we're going to walk with that couple to find that solution. So, and you said that you guys are in in the mecca of um uh military here in Texas. Currently, we're at the Exo Studios in South Lake, Texas. Where are you guys at? Um where is this base at you're talking about? So, right now we're in San Antonio. So, Lackland Air Force Base. I've had the the the amazing privilege of working with our military training instructors. So, uh myself and my partner, our jobs to take care of the instructors who train all of our new uh Air Force recruits. So, basic military training, that's where I work. And I take care of those instructors, as I mentioned, that work the long hours. Right now, I think they work six days, 10 hour shifts. So, you're you know, 60 hours right there. you're you're you're you're going then trying to take care of your family, then trying to, you know, uh do professional development, you know, go to your kids ball games, your only day off, you're going to church if you choose to do so. Yeah. You know, so you can imagine the tough environment and and you know, the amount of stress that those those guys go through. So that's who we're have been taking care of for the last three years. um those guys and their families, about 650 or so of them. You add their families in there, you're looking, you know, you're up a couple thousand or more folks that you take care of. So pretty uh pretty large large scope there. That's awesome. Yeah. When you say that you've been doing this for three years, you've done Valor and Vows for three years or been a chaplain in the military for three years. Been at Lackland at at this assignment for three years. I've been a chaplain since 2013. um valor and vows. We've this is our first year. Yeah. First year doing Valor and Vows. So we've kind of compiled that information and those experiences and and that's how we kind of had on our heart to to write the book. Well, the way we in the years that we've been doing ministry within the chaplain corps and in the church because we served in the church prior to coming prior to him commissioning back into the military. He was enlisted prior. Um, while there were so many amazing resources out there for couples, what we kept hearing our couples tell us is, well, it doesn't really speak to us. You know, we're in the military, so we speak a completely different language. And while the concepts and the principles might be nice, how do you have intimacy when you guys are geographically separated? How does that work? That doesn't that doesn't apply to us? So automatically they were just kind of tuning off at that. They just thought it's just not for them and that they just didn't have hope. Did you try to answer that question? And so what Matt and I did is we birth valor and vows because of it. You know, we sat there and said, "Okay, you know what? You're right. Um it is different. We do speak a different language, but the principles that are in the word of God when it comes to marriage and family are very, very similar to our military culture. So what the Lord had given us through our marriage almost falling apart, seeing how God rebuilt it and the miracle that he did in our lives and we said, "Well, if he can do that for us, how many more people can he do that to or how to do that for?" And um it was one marriage retreat that we were doing specifically and I had a a spouse come to me and she was a commander and she said, "Well, this is all fine and great, but I'm a commander. I'm a commander over an entire squadron and when I get home, I'm the boss." And I said, "I am so glad that you said that to me. That is just amazing." I said, "Let's talk about chain of command." I said, "What does your chain of command structure look like?" And she says, "Well, I'm I'm the squadron commander." I said, "Okay, perfect. Who do you report to?" And she said, "Oh, okay. Well, I report to the group commander." I said, "Okay." And then who go from there and tell me how how far up the chain do you go? And she goes, "Well, I go all the way up to the commander-in-chief." And I said, "Okay. Are any of those roles down the line of chain of command inferior to the other?" And she said, "Absolutely not." I said, "Okay. In the military, if any of those cogs in the wheel get misaligned, if chain of command is not properly abided by, what happens? And she's like, well, we have mission failure and that's not acceptable. And I'm like, absolutely. Welcome to Ephesians 5. And her eyes lit up like saucers. She said, what do you mean? I said, "God has given us this perfect structure for how he has designed our marriage and our family, but there has to be someone who can help cast that vision. And then there has to be someone who can come alongside and help execute that vision. That's the husband and the wife. So why is it that you feel that if you give up that position that you're losing something? And she said, "Well, I guess I really never thought of it that way, but maybe I'm not." I said, "No, you're actually gaining so much more." And that was really the ticket when I came home to him and said, "You won't believe this experience I had when I was we had separated the women and the men and and this was our conversation." I was like, "What if we wrote a book like this? What if we talked about military imagery and relating it back to God's perfect design for marriage and that's really how it was born. So when you are saying that was she trying to bring the way that the military lays out chain of command to the home like for example it's God then your spouse then your kids you know that's the chain of command I'm thinking you're thinking talking about at home right she's saying when I get home like she was thinking that she's in command and then it's yep husband and kids okay so she was taking that thinking home with Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And we see that a lot. Well, and that's, you know, it doesn't sound as glamorous when I put it this way, but honestly, what we see the biggest issue is it's just a misalignment of priorities with our couples, with our families. It's as simple as that. A lot of times, you know, 95% of the counselings that I do with couples or an individual who's struggling, you know, in a relationship, it's it's just based off of a misalignment. you know, you've got that structure you just mentioned out of whack, you know, and we get to where God is on that list and it usually comes in around sixth or seventh, you know, it should be first, eight, you know, so and then that's how we start working all things. That's how we try to get those those priorities realigned because if you got that out of whack, you know, that one element out of whack, everything's going to be out, you know, and that's causing the division, that's causing the separation, that's causing the the anxiety in the marriage and the distance and which creates all these other problems that start filtering it. when you guys are working with these men and women at this base specifically, um, tell me like the first top or the not the first three, but the top three or top five things that you see are repetitive in the generation that you're working with. And is there just a generation you're working with that are just like in their 20s and married in military, 30s, married in military, or 20s and 30s married in military? So, three common things that you see over and over again. And then is there certain uh generations that you're working with specifically? You want to go first? I Well, so our age groups are so vast. They are so vast. I mean, we have babies like 18, fresh out of basic training that just get married. And then we have couples who are, you know, in their sometimes mid-40s, upwards of high 50s that are getting ready to transition out of the military and they're having significant problems because they don't know how to become civilian again. That sounds really fun and easy. Yeah. For folks, but that's very difficult. Yes. You've been 20 plus years doing this thing we all do and you're calling it quits. Everybody in the family starts to get some anxiety, some stress, you know. Now, some of them have a solid plan, have had a plan, and they transition fairly easy. But a lot of times for the kids, for the spouse and for the member, depending on their level of a lot of times their level of of leadership maybe or status within a in the military and in a unit, they're used to taking care of thousands of people. And now you're taking care of essentially maybe nothing. and here you are twiddling your thumbs after a few weeks like what in the world am I doing you know and start losing that identity. That's good to hear that you're helping cuz you're working with a large audience. Yeah. But I wanted to come back. Is is there three or four things that a couples that you see them tend to bring to you that they're dealing with? Yeah. Sex. Yeah. Sex. Money. Money. Communication. Another one is, and here's kind of where I want to go to tie into the to the um sex piece would be uh emotional support. Yeah. Emotional connection. Yeah. With your spouse, maintaining that. Mhm. There's where the problems come in a lot of times with our folks. Um we can talk more about that if you Yeah. As much as you want. You know, there's here's the thing. as you're talking about these kind of things. When my audience is listening to me talk, they're hearing me talk about recovery. And sometimes people think it's just drug, alcohol, substance process recovery. But like we were talking about in the green room, there's different kinds of recovery. Oh, absolutely. We've had people come on and they're talking about um um recovery uh from the loss of a child or recovery from church hurt. That's a different kind of recovery. So, any kind of recovery stories come through what you guys are doing? Oh my gosh. I mean, on the broader spectrum, we see a lot of, and I don't even know how to how to phrase it appropriately, but we see a lot of people who are addicted to the status. Yeah. If that makes sense. And what I mean by that is when you are at a certain place in your military career, you are elevated. You are highly respected. Uh there is a level of privilege that comfort for for some. And how do you transition your identity into what we know should be in Christ when your identity for 35 years has been in your status? That's been a really big one. And then that snowballs into other things because then they're going to coping me mechanisms to deal with all that other stuff. Um it's funny. I was talking to a spouse the other day and she's like, "Well, the military ruined my marriage." And and that broke my heart because this has been, you know, if you look at our full time, it's been almost 25 years and it's been the best adventure I've ever been on. And I said, 'Well, can we take that back a second and can I try to give you maybe a different perspective? Maybe it's not the military that ruined your marriage. Maybe it's what was brought into it. Those things that were not dealt with prior to coming in. And now that you're in this environment where you have high work tempo, geographical separation, all these things, now that's just gasoline on an already stoked fire. And when I was able to talk to her about that and kind of go backwards and break all those things down, then she realized that, okay, there's just heartwork that needs to be done. And once that heart work is done, now I'm able to thrive in the setting that God has placed me in. That's good. You know, um but that's that's one that I've seen most recently is that is just that status. Um but you see so you've seen so many Yeah. Like I think recovery stories, you know, a couple come to mind. One comes to mind we were talking about earlier with an old partner I had where we had to literally keep this person alive from a a drug overdose. Yeah. Uh we got a call one day. Um we typically never go to someone's house. That's just the only place we can respond to, you know, as a chaplain to to go to somebody's home. So we got the call to do so and I said I'll go if the first sergeant goes with us. So you know first sergeant agrees to go with us. So we go out to this individual's home and he had been separated from the wife going through a infidelity circumstance with with the spouse um separated just you know the whole nine. And um what we didn't know was before we got there, he had taken a bottle of pills and and washed it down with probably 8 to 10 ounces of of straight whiskey, you know, and man, it it took a little when we first got there, he looked normal, like everything was all right and then just quickly fading, you know, and all of a sudden he's he just passes out and we're sitting there talking to him. So my partner and I have to keep him alive. He's throwing up. he's, you know, we have to keep his airways open and and all these things until, you know, paramedics can get there essentially, you know, saving his life if I guess in a sense there. Um, but later to see him from a place of being angry at us for trying to help him. Yeah. and position he was in to allowing us to come in and work through that situation with him, talk to him, be a a brother, you know, one in brother in arms to him, but also be a brother in Christ here and put ourselves in in on the level with him and get him the help he needed, you know, spiritual help, you know, help with the addiction, help with recovering through, you know, the situation with his spouse and seeing him overcome that and later say, "Thank you for saving my life and and coming in and stepping in when I wanted you to get the heck out of my house." Yeah. You know, so we've we've seen some of those type of circumstances, but a lot of healed marriages, too. You know, you hear about, well, militaries divorce rates high. All you hear about is the bad. There's a lot of good, but a lot of good, you know. So, um, give me a stat. If I had a if I had a computer in here, I would I'd want to look or I'll ask Google. But give me a stat of um how many people that are get married or staying married? Military. What right now? It's it's about it's it's about 50/50. Yeah. The 50% that are coming in, you know, there's a 50% chance that they'll be divorced or that they'll struggle with some type of addiction. Yeah. That's that's kind of where it was I think last year. Yeah. But I know it's I mean the cost was like the cost was tremendous for oh my gosh the amount of money spent on divorce in the military is expensive. It was $15,000 I think per I can't remember if it was per couple or per individual but it was it was outrageous. So it's a lot of you know what we're seeing is is again that financial struggle and strain that comes from these things that people think are going to make their lives better because they just want to be happy. Um, but what's happening in all reality is it's not it's not making you happy. Um, my my thing with this is we're doing a terrible job of preparing people for marriage. Yes. You know, I I guess I see it within the military context way more than maybe you would on, you know, was on outside in a in a in a pastorship role. But on the inside, our folks in the military get married so often just because just because there was a a emotional connection or a physical connection or a or this person likes the things I like or we're going to the same place, you name it, you know, and that creates that a bond, if you will, and they just get married with no plan, no spiritual foundation, no basis of God's word, just let's wing it. And you know, they getting married because in their mind, okay, I'm about to go sign up to be in the military for two years, four years, whatever. I need to help get a wife and a kid so that if something happens to me, are they thinking about what the possibility of things that could happen to them makes them want to act quicker in their mind? I I I don't think so as much as honestly is very financially beneficial for one for those that are coming in for those that are coming in. Yes. To do so. For those that are already in, what we see is a lot of the um infatuation that happens, you know, oh, you know, uh we met downrange and we had this really great connection and there was passion and chemistry and you know, and then we just got married. And I'm not saying that stuff doesn't exist and that's not great, but you know, how are you starting out that if you start a relationship right, the chances of it going well are much more increased. You know, if you if you don't start it with God's word, you don't start it on that type of foundation, man. It's it's 50/50. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I've I've heard um some of the podcasts that are done here, one of them is with Brent Evans, the the Real Thing podcast. Oh, yeah. M some of those young adults talk about um it wasn't confusing to me when I was dating, you know, 25 years ago, 30 years ago, but it's confusing now. Like they go from the season of, oh, we just met maybe with downwind or downrange or whatever, but um we're going to hang out before we're considered talking. We're going to talk before we're considered a couple. And before we're considered a couple, let's just throw another six months in there, you know, where If I date or if I went on a date a couple times, we're if I paid for your food relationship. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. There was no there was no DTR. Yeah. That I mean we've been together for 23 years. I don't even know what I didn't even know that meant. You know it, you know, we had a completely different mindset um y than than than like you said than there is now. Boom. But their mindsets of these people that aren't in the military, but then the other people that are in the military, they're just they're hurrying up doing it for what reason? What what's the difference in those two? But they're the same age. I wonder that's just a question that come Well, I mean, in our world now, you've taken, you know, you've taken uh a little piece of kindling and then when you do what you just said and then you go and get married and then you now are in the military, now you have a bonfire [Music] because they don't have any clue what military life is like. What we've been trying to do through Valor and Vows is with those with the new spouses that are coming in, you know, I sit them down and and and share with them like we talk about the oath of office like that oath of office that your husband or wife is taking. You may not stand up there. You may not raise your hand. You may not say those words, but you are saying those words. You are taking that oath of office with them. You are agreeing to put service before self whether you like it or not. That is how it is. So there is there does need to be a cognizance of you know this ministry life as a calling not as a vocation. And when you can really approach it that way, then you are setting yourself up to have the success and and thrive in the environment that that I, you know, we've loved all these years. Yeah. No, I I agree with you on that. Um I tell couples that I work with, especially the supporting spouse is um just because your spouse got sober doesn't mean they're sober alone. You're now in recovery with them. And so you have to think that way. That's good. Um and and you can make it meaningful and lifeb buildinging and lifech changing. It doesn't have to be um let them carry the burden of all the bad things they've done. You just need to walk with them through the things they need to fix. That's the whole reason that I wrote um Marriage After Addiction is because it gives both the husband and the wife something to do and to be able to hold themselves and each other accountable. Um even your even in your selfishness. Yeah. So ask well it's and and what I I love about that is you know it's the same sentence we are on the same team you are now putting on the jersey of whatever military branch of service you have decided to walk into. So y'all are wearing that jersey together and when you can approach that journey from that lens then it it begins to make you know it begins to make the difference. And then what we try to do is, okay, now let's take that part out of the equation and let's get down to the real root of what's going on in your marriage. You know, he didn't just and and we had this situation happen. That's why I'm bringing it up. He didn't just start looking at pornography because it was just something fun to do. There's something a lot deeper. There was a layer that was there. Or vice versa, cuz we have it with females, too. There's layers that are there. What's going on underneath that surface that we can really dive down to? And a lot of times it's what he said, emotional intimacy. I was missing that emotional intimacy in my marriage. Okay, now let's figure out how to build that back. Let's set those parameters. Let's set those boundaries. Let's have that accountability because you can work through this. Um, so we, you know, we've seen that quite a bit as well. For sure. When you bring a couple in, are you working with them through like a program or a process that you guys have created? Are you going through the book with them? valor and vows and then how much time are they spending with you? Well, we are um part of the marriage institute here at EXO. Okay. Um and so we do intensives with intensive coaching with them. We do tailor it to whatever time they can afford. Sometimes they can't afford 8 hours and that's perfectly fine. We want to make it very palatable for them. Uh so we work alongside our curriculum in addition to the resources that that we have there and then of course he's got the covering of being the chaplain. So there's the support that he can give them. Um but typically it is more intensive coaching up front and then we set those appointments that are a lot shorter. we can try to get them into a retreat after that or something to where they can we can continue to strengthen what we're working at and strengthen that connection. So, that's one thing about the book that, you know, we really wanted to make sure we did was create a way that it could be taught, not just read. you know, it's an easy read, you know, but it's meant to be that way because you can turn around, take that book and do a men's group with it or a ladies group with it or a couple's group with it or or we can come teach a retreat about it. You know, that's what we wanted from it was, you know, to be well-rounded that way to where you could just pick it up and read it on a small trip on your own or or, you know, say, "Hey, let's get them in together at the church and let's spend 10 weeks going through this, you know, whatever the case may be, and and work on those individual pieces, you know, strengthening the relationship." So, um, we try to do that with our couples as well, you know, and usually, well, not usually all the time. There's somewhere within that book that they're they have a struggle. Yeah. You know, so we can pick out that chapter, we can pick out that that piece and go over that with them and spend a couple hours on that or, you know, really dive into communication or dive into, you know, top cover or whatever, intimacy, you know, and finances, all the things. Mhm. But, you know, for us too, it's being able to utilize it as an opportunity to train other people and equip other people to be able to take it to wherever they are. Many hands make light work. We've we've we do what we do and we love it. Um, but we also want others to come alongside us and be able to say, "Hey, you know, we'll facilitate. We can teach that. We can bring it into the church." Um, the veterans population that's in the church now is is vast. It's vast. Yeah. Yeah. And we see a lot of of um we see a lot of addiction with the veterans. Um well 25% of veterans are have PTSD diagnosed PTSD right out of uh out of the gate retirement as soon as they get 25% you know. So I I think you know a big pitch for me to be would be as a chaplain. I see it on the inside when I see these guys get out or even if they're stationed, you know, close to your church maybe and you know, you have a lot of veterans in there. Most churches do something for the veterans. You know, they some do more than others, but not many have like a dedicated platform or a military ministry, so to speak, with somebody who understands that world that can talk their language a little bit. And you say, "Well, man, that's hard to find." And you know it can be, you know, I get that. But what we've tried to do through the book as well is maybe give churches a platform to use with that an easy one to say, "Hey, um, we can we can run this through our our our veterans and our military folks. We can offer it, you know, as as a teaching platform for them, you know, and because every church has a veteran." Mhm. I mean, you go any church and have them raise their hands, there's going to be veterans in that church, you know, and not to call churches out, but hey, what are you doing for them? You know, I know you love them because every church you go to, man. Oh, they love the military. Love. Yeah. But so, are you saying that uh churches can reach out to you guys direct and and say, "Okay, if we want to try Valor and Vows or we want to hear what Valor and Vows offers or does would be accomplish, you're saying that you could make this a ministry." Mhm. Yeah. Absolutely. for sure you could you could turn around take that book material and and the teaching that we're have coming with it you know to to plug right in you know and and like I said it it like it's like I said it's difficult sometimes to find the right person within your church that can say yeah I'll take the charge on this ministry you know and and they may know a lot about the military they may not so this is a platform that you know somebody could pick up that's never been in uniform before and and run it or you might have an individual in there that's a 30-year veteran that can pick it up and run it, you know, and and really connect those folks. You know, you don't want to lose those folks though, you know, not because I am in the military, but we owe those those veterans uh that act of service. You know, we owe them to take care of them in a different way because they have lived a different life. It is a different life. And you know, I I'm I'm not saying nobody takes care of us at all. Many people do. people love what we're we're doing and and we our folks do sacrifice, you know, and I think it's important for them to understand and know that they're loved, taken care of, and at least somebody's trying, you know, to to say, "Hey, we understand the hurt out there. We know that 25% of you have the PTSD. We know that you've been away from your families for, you know, and sacrificed on our behalf, and how do we help you? Well, here's what we're going to do, you know, and so I'd like to see that more and more. I think that would start maybe cutting into the suicide rate. Maybe it'll cut into the to the divorce rate. You know, I know those things will start to happen if if there's more of a dedicated presence for those veterans and folks that And if a if a pastor or someone that leads a church is listening to this episode, what would be um what would be something they would need to have to start that outside of knowing who you guys are, knowing about the book Valor and Vows, you know, let's say they had 20 people that were in their church that were ex-military or the military and they wanted to be they wanted to do this. Are you saying do this through starting a small group? Absolutely. Or a life group or something like that. Yeah. Because and and what we hear so much from from men and women that we know that have retired even recently they feel a loss of community. the world that we are living in right now in the military. It's for me it's it's a brotherhood and a sisterhood. My ride or die sisters in arms, you know, have been with me for, you know, 25 years. Those are the girls that took care of my son when when I was sick and he was gone. Um, when you leave that environment, you do in some senses leave that community. That's where the isolation comes in. That's where we see a lot of the issues happen. Um, and when you are able to put them into a small group or a life group, you're rebuilding that community. They're able to again share stories, speak the language, you know, and and that helps them through their recovery and it also helps them, you know, if it were me and and I was speaking to a pastor out there, it's like, "Hey, how do I get this off the ground?" in my for me as a military chaplain doing this all the time, man. Hold a hold a little event. Just hold a little event, hold a dinner, hold a, you know, some type of gathering at the church in support of those folks. Promote it to them, you know, say, "Hey, we want like an interest meeting." Yeah. Yeah. And just have folks come in, feed them, you know, take care of them, have somebody, you know, uh, present maybe, hey, here's our vision here. Here's what we'd like to do, you know, going forward because we want to invest in this this piece of the church. Yeah. Which is when people when you feed people, they'll show up. They do show up. And we we uh we're pretty good at that these days. We we feed our folks. So, they will show up for that. They love our food trucks. Yeah. Yeah. Food trucks great. But what it shows them is, hey, all right, somebody cares here. Somebody's trying. Mhm. I'm I'm willing to I'm willing to hear what they have to say. Yeah. you know, and through that you may have somebody, hey, I want to help. Hey, here's my experience. I was 22 years in the Air Force and, you know, I did this, this, and this. I can I'd love to help out, you know, and you you can build that community a little bit more that way and see what type of interest you have, you know, and if there's a good vest and interest there and and folks are are are gravitating toward it, you know, run that platform and grow that ministry and then you guys can end up reaching out to other churches and other places and connecting those veterans not only in the church organizations but also throughout your community and those faith or you know, military organizations. Do you think um I'm a nonprofit? Okay. And all I want to do as a nonprofit, well, I want to raise money and it's that's a hard question to ask is can you donate some money? Um I also want to use that money to continue the build of what I'm doing here with recovery val. like certain recovery centers um that uh are nonprofit or are not funded by the government um maybe organization like yours. I would love to partner with you guys and give you another resource to go along with your resource so they have just more tools in their toolbox. I say that all the time, but just so they have more more uh action steps. This book is written as a workbook. So at the end I think I sent you guys a copy. So you you saw at the end of the chapter you answer questions as the husband, as the wife, the person in recovery, the person that's supportive. But you know, if I can help give you some power as you're continuing to to build this thing out, I would love to make sure you guys have uh copies of the book to go along with yours. So that you know, we're doing this together. This is not to come along, I mean, not to go in front of. This is to come alongside of you and behind you and just help push you, help you as much as possible. Absolutely. We're all for just helping our folks out here. You know, we we love to come alongside folks that have a a like-minded interest in in trying to support. This is a this is a very hard-hitting, you know, piece of the pie in my opinion. Not many people get after that. Yeah. You know, a lot of people are scared to get after that or they'll mention it, but it's like I don't know about writing a book on it. Well, that like you know, like you said, addiction and recovery is just like the the big the big names, right? And it's not. It's it's very very very broad. And if we really take an introspective look and see like, well, maybe there are some things that I need to recover from. Yeah. You know, and I'll throw one at you. Anger 100%. Anger, PTSD, you got to recover from those feelings. Now, this isn't going to cure it. It's not It's clinical. It's got clinical backing in it, but it's not going to cure everything. It's just meant for you to have words from a practical standpoint of other people that have done it and it helped them. And this is how I love you said that because that's how I learn. I'm just assuming a lot of people learn that way, which is learning from other people. Yeah. Their mistakes, their victories, their losses, their wins, and how they got through it. How God came in and transformed it. Mhm. That's what wrote our book. I mean, you know, we're not sitting here saying that, "Oh man, we got to figure it out. We've been doing this great for 23 years. No, man. We had some problems. We had some issues. We we were about to get a divorce. You know, we had to we had to have the the miracle working power of the Lord to come in and and and take care of us and save us from those things and open my eyes, open her eyes to what do I need to to do here to change myself a little bit to to be the best person for my spouse, you know. So, I think, you know, those type of platforms are are tremendous for our military folks. That one would be, you know, great as well. Yeah, I'm trying to I'm trying to do the same thing with Fort Gordon, Fort Eisenhower, uh in Augusta, Georgia. They have a hospital on the top floor, I think, is the detox wing. So, my I have a goal to get in there with them. But, yeah, I know the military's always got something going on. So, it's it's all about who you know, too. Yeah, it is. Um that's another thing about starting a military ministry is those connections start happening. The connections start coming. You know, you got, like I said, you got a retired guy here that's maybe knows a guy that works up there or knows he's got an in, you know, I'll tell you one thing, the connection within the military community is broad, you know, it is like a guy can walk in here that I've never seen before and he was stationed somewhere that I was stationed. Automatically we have a connection. Yeah. You know, and that happens so often in the military. And I think if you, you know, not trying to pitch this too hard to to pastors out there, but, you know, having a good thriving military ministry, you know, it's going to open up those opportunities for the rest of your church, for the rest of your growth because, you know, the the opportunities are just going to continue to to elevate themselves and grow, you know, just because, you know, there's such a need for it in my opinion. Well, and I think they're they're partnering with the solution. Mhm. You know, because we talk so often about what the problem is, but let's talk about how we can become part of the solution. And it's very simple. They're very simple shifts. It's not looking at one another and in a competitive light. It's looking at how can we collaborate with each other. We all have the same heart. We want to see people thrive. You know, the three of us are sitting here in a Genesis 50:20 moment. What the enemy meant for evil, God is using for good. If he can do that for us, how many more people does he want to do that for? That's good. Our healing is is is now being realized in the purpose that God gave you for your ministry and that God has given us for this one. That's where it's evident. And I'm going to tell you, I'm not special. Yeah. Me neither. You know, I'm just a girl, you know. So, I love working with people that have the mindset of, hey, I might be the seed planter. You might be the guy that works with them for 6 months and and gets them to recovery and gets them on track, right? You might be the seed planter in a in a military marriage and I might be the one that that gives them this platform for a couple months and their marriage gets here by the little, you know, it's working together, you know, and I think that's another big key nowadays is the the competitive thing needs to stop there and and let's work together with each other. And you have a a specific skill set the Lord is using you for. you know, I'm going to push people to to you for that, you know, cuz you're the guy they need to talk to. Yeah. I'd love to talk to whoever that you have out there, whoever's listening to the podcast today. I'll say that if you do want to reach out to me direct, you can reach me at recoveryvaugmail.com or um any of our social media platforms. And if if the listeners today want to reach out to you guys, what's the best way for them to connect with you? valor andgmail.com and social medias. and social media. Valer and Vows on Facebook. Uh we do have a YouTube channel, but the email will just get that'll get right to our inbox. Okay. Did you bring a copy of the book with you by chance? I It's at the hotel. I needed Sorry. Sorry everybody for my intro. Uh I can get it to you. No. So, I think I was supposed to have it here because I was gonna hold it up, but it's okay. Brett might have one upstairs. He might. I don't know. I'm going to do the intro so we can flow out. Okay. Um I do want to say um real quick that I'm very thankful that you guys uh took the time to get a book a flight here. Oh, thank you. Yeah, we're fly to South Lake, Texas to hang out with me. Well, hey, it's I am so thankful. We're honored. We really are. We we're so and um you know when when your book came out I was so excited because I know that you know I thought what did I think I thought like man we're finally now starting to talk about some things in the church we're finally really starting to just get real about what we're all going through. You know the the saying is hurt people hurt people. Healed people heal people. That's good. And so it's an honor for us to be here. Yeah. Well, again, I can't thank you and I look forward to us working together even even more. I don't know what that looks like or how big this door is we're about to walk through, but I do want to walk through it with you. Well, thank you. Be honored.