Rewiring the Mind: Dr. John King on Faith and Healing from Trauma | The Recovery Vow Podcast

Today’s episode delivers a message every survivor needs to hear: healing is possible—and it’s built one intentional day at a time.

Eric is joined by Dr. John King, an Australian-born trauma expert whose inspiring transformation from abuse victim to global leader proves what can happen when faith, neuroscience, and relentless discipline collide.

Dr. King breaks down the practical habits, mental strategies, and God-led revelations that helped him overcome years of trauma and rebuild his life with purpose, clarity, and peace. If you need hope, direction, or a spark to keep going—press play.

On This Episode:
How Dr. King survived childhood abuse and found purpose in recovery
Why faith and neuroscience work together in healing trauma
The danger of trying to “microwave” recovery
Practical tools to rewire your brain and renew your mind
How slowing down, discipline, and self-grace lead to lasting peace

Connect with Dr. John King:
Instagram: @drjohnkinglive

Connect with us:
Socials: @‌RecoveryVow
Website: http://recoveryvow.com
Email: recoveryvow@gmail.com

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• Transcript

  Hey, thank you so much for joining me on the Recovery Valve podcast today. I am more than excited to have Dr. King with me today. Now, Dr. King, you're going to look at this guy and be like, "Okay, that's Eric's twin brother. I can tell it in his voice. I can see it in his face. I can see it. Tell me some of the work and the research that you do uh in trauma specifically and how that trauma um how you use people and their trauma to help them become better people because a lot of people in addiction and that are walking through recovery, we we've all dealt with some kind of a trauma. Sure. In the past. Yeah. Sure. So, walk us through that, man. I think everyone's dealt with trauma in some form or another. It's about our individual ability to be able to cope with that. And we've all got different levels according to different things. And so in my case, I was abused and what we would call trafficked as a kid um from the age of about four through to, you know, until I got too big not to be, you know, probably about 12 years. And this was in Australia. That was This was in Australia. Yeah. So, I'm Australian. You could tell the accent. I couldn't tell. I thought you were from South Texas. Tell North Carolina. That's the first time I've been accused of that. Um my girl, my wife's from South Carolina. She said that's God's country, so she'd probably discuss that with you. So, you know, I was abused and trafficked as a kid and um I had recall of that in 2008. And up to then it had been like little frames, little single 8mm frames. And on this one particular day, it all came flooding back and it ended up stringing together like an old movie and playing continuously for about 7 years. You know, some days it still does. And so what that led to is what my internal marketing department called Johnon, which was a total life meltdown. Lost everything. Uh lost my first marriage, estrained from my kids, ended up broke. uh living in a one-bedroom apartment with a cinder block bookcase and a mattress on the floor like I was back at college again. Yeah. And it's taken me about 15 years to build back from that. Um up to that point I was a very successful ran a worldwide ministry preached around the world about nine months of the years. I went from that to a chronic stutter that was so bad people would get embarrassed for me and walk away. [snorts] And so, so I think one of the things with people in recovery, one of the errors of judgment they make is they think they're going to microwave their recovery. You know, if they really want to go long, they'll pick 45 seconds, you know, popcorn plus and it's all going to be over in a flash. Popcorn plus, you know, you know, popcorn and you hit the extra button. I saw my microwave when you said that. [laughter] Like that's what I need. Power eight. Yeah. Power eight popcorn plus. and um they think it's going to be over. And I I think particularly in in some Christian circles and circles that emphasize a belief in the faith and the supernatural power of God, I don't know if the church has a good doctrine either on suffering or on mental health. And when it comes to things that are protracted like recovery from an addiction or a traumatic event, there has to be an extension of grace that understands that this takes time. So in my case, it was 45 years of going through that abuse and hiding from that traumatic event. And I was so desperate to be whole. I'd seen supernatural miracles. I'd seen signs and wonders. And I just wanted to be whole. And and one morning, it was like the voice of God spoke to me and said, "I am not your fairy godmother." Yeah. I'm your heavenly father. And every day if you'll get up, I'll give you a new tool for your toolbox. And 15 years later, I'm still doing that. Can I ask you a question? Yeah. when you talk to the audience and you look down the barrel of that camera and I want to get as I want to get pretty heavy and real just because that's where we are in the conversation. Can you take us if we were to close our eyes, can you take us to what a traumatic these traumatic moments were um when you were younger, can you kind of paint the picture of where you were, [laughter] what that traumatic thing was and um you know what what did that do to you at that age? Well, there was many. Um, my my first sex act I was four and it was oral sex. Um, I was taken to parties and I was trained, you know, I'm not sure how explicit I I can I was trained [clears throat] be explicit as you want. I was trained to be very good at oral sex on women and I was taken to payout parties and that was my party trick. And so I was put in these situations, people filmed it. Um, you know, so there was a range of things like that. And for me as a child, I never had an external reference. I never knew that that was abnormal. I just assumed that you watched your female caregivers bathe. I assumed you watch pornography and then perform sexual acts. So, I remember I did run away once when I was seven and I ran away to the neighbor next door and she beat me and dragged me back because a woman would never do that to a boy and it would be 40 years before I tell my story again. Why did she beat you? Because a a mother would never do that to her son. I was a liar. And um so so that was at seven. So if you think of it like I was 3 years into being abused and I was trying to get out and as a result it would take another five years before I was literally too big. Yeah. Um you know I filled out and grew and I fought. Good for you, Doc. Yeah. I'm still fighting. [snorts] Well, I think we all are to an extent of some kind. That that's a heavy type of trauma like Yeah. Yeah, my first sexual experience was I was younger, but I wasn't trained I wasn't trained to do that, but this this lady was older than me and um I had no idea what I was doing. I think it was just a I think it was just an arousal thing where she was going through uh questioning whatever. Yeah. But it's totally different than what you're talking about. Yeah. So, I was an equal opportunity victim. I went from that to scout camps and um you know and that was a whole another level. But for 40 years you didn't you didn't share anything. No, I I didn't I didn't till, you know, it was a 2008 on a Thursday at about 10:45 in the morning. It all came back and I realized that these little frames of abnormality were in fact a pattern over a long period of time. And that's what you call being a victim of sexual abuse or trafficking. So, your brain does that. Your brain's got an incredible capacity to compartmentalize things. And I think one of the things I've come to learn is you can't get good fruit off a bad tree and with people regardless of what they're facing now and I do a lot of work with military guys and I was talking to a couple of fellas beforehand um you know tip of the spear guys and what I found with them and is that probably 70 to 80% of them have had very traumatic backgrounds often sexual traumatic backgrounds as kids because they they got to a point where they said you'll never hurt me or mine again. Yeah. and they hardened up and they they got became hard men. The challenge they now face in life is they went to war and it's often not the things they did in war that cause PTSD. Um the thing is is what they couldn't prevent when they were children because that court is in question their manhood caused called question their ability to be able to protect a sister or a brother or someone else. So here they are with a guilt of it and they've got a pre-existing condition in terms of the VA or in terms of HR in a police department and you can't talk about that stuff. Yeah. And if you can't talk about it, you can't ever change the trunk of your tree. You will not get good fruit off a bad tree. So unless you're prepared to do the work, go deep. Um you will never change the fruit of the outcome of your life. And you know the word's very clear on that. And it's very important uh for your listeners, Christian men, non-Christian men to understand that if they want to change the outcome of their life, they got to be prepared to do the work. Did you start doing the work the the day that you woke up that morning and it was 40 years later? Did you start doing the work right away or what did the work look like for you when you wanted to rebuild? I think I I was I was in ministry up to that point and I was teaching a series of things and I was doing a whole bunch of corporate leadership training. Um that that was the business I ran corporate training within for nonprofit and for-profit organizations and I started to teach a series of things on integrity and uh personal growth and what I found later is that was preparation for what was coming. So now I had the information. So um information revelation application transformation we all start with information once it comes to a point where it becomes a revelation wow only do we see transformation once we apply so at that stage I had information then I realized that I needed it that was my information and then I spent the next 15 years applying that information so to say that I started with it man I I was a babbling crying mess. I would have day visions. I would be sitting I'd be preaching in my congregation and I would have images like a movie playing behind heads of orgies of I'd been involved as a kid. I'd be sitting having like we had barbecue. I'd be sitting there and I'd see all these homosexual interactions that I was involved in as a kid all happening around me. And it's very disconcerting. But these things didn't leave me for about seven years. Um and it didn't matter how much I prayed, how much I fasted, how much I read my word. Um these things were just there and it was a series of rewiring my brain, actively rewiring my brain, renewing my mind and um giving myself grace. Mhm. Which I think is a very underrated aspect of recovery is self-grace. Yeah. Grace is great. And um being able to forgive yourself even if you didn't play a part in it. Exactly. And you Yes. Yeah. You know, and that's a big thing, you know, it's because you do there is a part that you play and it's after the trauma and it's a life as an adult, as a as a man. It's like you inflicted yourself on others or you were painful to live with or you you hurt verbally and emotional those that you're called to care and love for. And there's a weight that comes with that. And I think men are very good at extending forgiveness to others and really difficult on extending it to themselves. I wonder why that is. I mean, why do Because I know exactly what you're talking about. We carry Yeah. We carry this weight. Is it because we are we scar Are we scared of how we're going to be defined or judged or viewed? I think that's part of it, but I think also a part of it is we are protectors, protector, corrector, um provider, our prophet, priest, and king in our home. And we just shouldn't do that stuff. Like I know it's silly to say, but I just should have been better. That was the thing that I had to get around. My my wife Melissa, she taught me um that you did the very best you could with what you had at the time. Mhm. And to accept that phrase has probably taken me a decade to be able to look I've apologized to all my kids. I'm still estrained from a couple of them. But at some point I had to come and say, "Listen, I've apologized for all of that. I'm done with apologizing for it because every time you make me rehash this and reap apologize, I'm reliving it. And I'm not called to do that. I, you know, if you can't forgive me, that's not on me. And to be able to say that as a man and a father is really difficult because we we we are built and created to carry the burden of brokenness so everybody else is whole around us. No, you're right. And and so to be able to walk forward in that is difficult for men. And but it wasn't until I could stop long enough to appreciate the fact that I'd been given a second chance. And for me not to embrace the grace that came with that was to call it a cheap grace. And it was an expensive grace. The grace measured to me was an expensive grace. And I am grateful for it. And so I will hold it like the pre treasure it is. and I will walk in that very expensive grace of forgiveness. Did you start working on some kind of process or program that would help other people um walk through that? I mean, when you woke up that morning and you realized that this last 40 years you've kind of oppressed this, did you know then that you needed to develop something that would help other people? No, I did exactly the opposite. I' I'd been in ministry for a long time since my my mid20s. So when this happens I was 45. So I've been in ministry say for 20 years and I'd seen a lot of people come out of addiction come out of trauma background get about 18 months into it and then start to they want to start their own ministry and I saw them all collapse. You know um Paul talks to Timothy about you know do not promote those that are young or noviceses in the faith. And I think when we promote the new Christian or the new, you know, spectacular testimony and that person decides they want to go on and save and change the world. And often it's good motives, but the reality is they've probably got a decade of work to do. Yeah. They're not ready. No. And I was not ready. I read 200 books. Probably I read everything from the Napoleonic Wars trying to work out what PDSD was. There were no books on the sexual abuse of men, particularly by women. So I I read everything that I could on renewing the mind, neural linguistic programming, reading my word constantly, reading Bible commentaries. I just devoured everything I could. And my my idea is or the old 2080 rule, you know, if I could fix 20% of my life, I'd have 80% results. So I literally drew a ven diagram. I drew a vin diagram of my life and worked out the areas that I majorly sucked at and just worked on them. Yeah. So, it's like if I can work on the areas that are the old King James is suckth that I suck at that, then um then statistically I would be able to get myself in a better place. And I I did that very determinedly. Let me tell you what I can appreciate appreciate about that is that you didn't jump in and just say I'm ready to help help help do do because you for example if if I would have tried to do this my first or second year in recovery like this it would have failed. No, you would have been all ego and an inch thick and 5 miles wide. Yeah. With no with no idea what I'm doing and and I don't know everything I'm doing now but my brain has developed enough at least you're honest. [laughter] Yeah, I have no idea what I'm doing. Um, but I love to try. Like I don't have any remorse with failure. Yeah. None. Zero. I could care if I if I hear no every day. I at least I asked the question. Yeah. Exactly. You know what I mean? Yeah. Um so I can I can really appreciate that. So what are you doing um what are you doing today? Because I know that you've got a lot of stuff going on just from our first conversation. Yeah. What are you doing in your in your walk today that um that you would like to share with us? Well, we um it took probably 10 or 15 years and $200 or $300,000 for recovery. And I was blessed enough to be in a position that I could take that time and I had that money to invest. And a lot of that was just invest in solitude and peace and quiet. And we've took all of that and with the work that we did when we worked in anti-trafficking, everyone was focused on the for one of a better term the sexy side of anti-trafficking which was rescue. But no one was really talking about recovery. No one was talking about the fact that if if you have been trafficked as a child for four 12 months, 2 years, 3 years, four years that to recover completely is probably going to take 10 years. And so what we've tried to do is take that 15 years of learning and put it in a format so people can start to see transformation after 18 months. Is there is there a percentage of people that you know you've worked with that have dealt with that trafficking, dealt with that trauma and addiction became a part when I say addiction I mean like drugs and alcohol. Yeah. Very much. Very much. Um so part of the the the underlying um predisposition of post-traumatic stress disorder is uh you know risky behavior and the average life expectancy for someone with you know PTSD is somewhere between 37 and 57 depending upon what spectrum they're in. If they're down at the borderline personality end it's 37 50 57 more sits up in the PTSD end. That's why we're seeing a lot of the people that we do, military and police that are committing suicide around there because there's a series of risky behavior constantly seeking the adrenaline rush and the answer to the feeling. And that can be met with drugs, alcohol, sex. I mean, I remember one day I was riding on 114. It was pouring with rain. I was in some athletic shorts and a singlet with no helmet. And when I aquiplaned at 140 miles an hour, I asked myself the question, "What the heck do you think you're doing?" I was I was trying to see if I could survive because the feeling of survival was driving me. And I think when we go on these blinders and we we try this these cocktail of drugs or we try these multiple partners and acts that all we're doing is looking for getting out of it and feeling alive because we got close to death. And I think that's an aspect of everyone who's dealing with trauma. That's why I'm I'm I'm very interested in the relationship between um addiction and traumatic instances. There's a direct correlation there. Everybody I talk to with addiction has to some degree been had a traumatic past and everyone that's got severe trauma has some aspects of their personality which are addictive. Mhm. Isn't that interesting? Yeah. It's really it's horrible, but it's interesting. No, I mean it kind of is I hate to say but it's almost like it's supposed to go hand in hand. Well, it does, doesn't it? It does go hand in hand. And I think a lot of it is neurological. the way that our brain wires and rewires itself to cope. The way that it doesn't release memories and it won't do things. Doing the work on neuroplasticity, on rewiring my brain has been the most intensive single focus thing that I've done. And it's probably really been in the last two or three years that I've really been able to work out biohacking trauma for one of a better term. And and it's seen exponential results. uh being able to do the little things in my life have brought the greatest return. And it really has only been two years I felt like I've got my feet under me. So it all builds up and comes to a point education and you get to your place and you go hang on what if I put these three or four random bits and pieces together into a protocol and the the results have been incredible. And that's the sort of thing that we're trying to teach people now. Yeah. Okay. So if I were to take the addiction side of it, addiction of all kinds, you we create these tools, podcasts for people to relate, hear stories, workshops for people to come in and go through, 12step programs, books, they can do all of that. We've we've got these tools for the toolbox, right? What are some of the tools that you use or you've created to help people that to get through that trauma? So we've got a program. It's an app called the Phoenix Collective. We've actually made a uh I want I made a program and pulled it together for your people, your listeners called the Mindfire Challenge. It's free. It's going to cost them, but it's free. It'll cost them their excuses, their reasons not to turn up, and their time. And if they whine, I'll kick them off the program. That's just my commitment to them. Very good. Don't whine. Don't whine. And but you know if you go to bed at the same time every night and get up at the same time every morning and you eat a high protein highfat low carbohydrate diet and and you do that that'll probably solve about 40 to 50% of your anxiety. So depression is inflammation in the brain. So you can spend $7,000 on a cold plunge or you can have a twominute cold shower. What that'll do, it's probably more awkward. Uh, what that'll do is actually increase the health of your mitochondria, your blood, and decrease depression because it increases the head, the health of the blood, flows to your brain. Depression is inflammation in the brain. So, okay. So, I'm sleeping. So, that only works for me 2%. And then I'm having a cold shower. That only works for me 2%. You're serious. So, you're talking about taking a cold shower. I am talking about cold and cold shower. It has been 2 minutes between 30 seconds. 30 seconds is long enough for your body to to increase your heart rate variability, which is the first sign of good sleep because what you need is sleep to recover. And most of us who are addictive, we we don't we don't sleep well. So, I'm I'm going to bed at the same time, getting up at the same time. Preferably, I'm not sitting on my phone in bed. I've turned the blue light off an hour, preferably two, but we all we never do. We we lie to ourselves. It's always an hour or 15 minutes. So, if you can turn your phone off at 8, good sunshine, you'll be asleep by 10:00. It'll be worth for you. Get good sleep, get a good breakfast, have a cold shower before you go to bed. Miserable though it is. Stand with your feet on the ground, believe it or not, for 5 minutes or hug a tree if you can't stand. The frequencies that are in the earth, the plants and the ground are matched to the cycle, the circadian cycle of the sun rising and setting. So, if you take your shoes off, use this when you travel to get into sync for time changes. Put your feet on the ground. Your body within um I think it's 3/10en of a second will automatically sync to the location you're up to. You will absorb the frequencies into your body. Your body will settle down. Your body will get in tune with the rising of the sun and the setting of the sun. So, all of sudden, okay, now I'm going to be able to sleep better. If I sleep better, I lower um inflammation in my body. Um, [sighs] so no carbohydrates, get a good night's sleep, have a cold shower, put your feet on the ground, sit in the sun for 20 minutes and bio stack them, have a cup of coffee. Me, I'm a cigar Christ and coffee guy. So I sit on my feet on the ground, shirt off. If you're at home in your backyard, if you're a fellow, drop your duds. Red light therapy on the old on the on the on the family jewels. Hello. Is 200% increase in testosterone. I'm just telling you, man. It's a reason to sit out there in your glory. The wife gets a little bit upset because the neighbor's got a two-story flat, but I make sure I turn my sh. So, that's another thing. You can bring that up with her. So, you do these series of things and you're just sitting on the ground. How? I'm just got my feet on the ground, sitting in a coffee chair, all in my glory, having a cigar, reading my bottle, drinking a coffee, and talking to Jesus. Yeah. When I asked you to take us to certain places where we [laughter] see something visually, it wasn't Well, that's yours. That's yours for free. That's yours for free. So, just knock before you come home. Yeah. So, but if you add it up, just feet on the ground, shirt off for 20 minutes, I've had a good night's sleep, I've had a cold shower, those things are that's that's five things, 2% each. 2% each. Well, that's not much. That's only 10%. Okay. What if it's only 1%. What if I did that and I only saw a change 1% and I did it every week? By the end of the year, I've seen a 50% increase in my ability to be able to recover and change the way I think. So it's incremental changes. Everyone wants the popcorn plus answer, right? And it's doesn't never it will never doesn't happen in our spiritual walk. It doesn't happen in our walk and our knowledge of Christ. It's every verse, every Bible, every day is is the way it works. And it's exactly the same for our recovery. Would you say that you do this um sunbathing and all the different things that you just mentioned for a certain amount of time? Like are you doing this when you first get into it to create the habit? Yeah. You know, they often say 21 days is your habit forming time. Would you would you push someone to say, you know, do this for for for 10 days, do it for 20 days, do it for 21 days. It's actually more like 3 days. Some of the new science says that habits will change in 3 days. It look it it's just depends on how much you want to feel better. Like don't have processed food, turn your TV off, read a book, man. Like these things aren't difficult. Um what they are is a discipline. Go to bed early, get up early. It's just a discipline. It's it's but it will cost you. It's not free, but it will cost you. And the programs we've organized, I have that in mind is that they are mostly free, but they will cost you and not cost you the discipline to do it. It's a it's a next level of discipline, too, cuz I think about um often times I try to explain to people, they're like, I don't understand how you got addicted to, you know, cocaine or how you got addicted to drinking or, you know, all the things. I said, go put your phone down for for three days. Yeah, good luck with that. You don't We can't walk out of a room with our phones nowadays, right? So, I mean, when you're talking about turning that light off at night time, I mean, I bet um up to a certain generation um baby boomers, maybe everybody's on their phone at night time before they go to bed. Our rule is 7:00 we rule. So, blanket statement. I sound like I do it all the time. Yeah, maybe two or three nights a week. I get it. But we we we do try our best to turn the television off at 7, go to bed, and I might lie in bed because, you know, I love sending my wife silly memes while she's in the bath. You know, it's one of those things your husbands and wives do. But by the time we do get to bed, maybe it's 8:00, our phones are off and they're they're turned on airplane mode and then we will talk. You know, it's an old old school thing that married couples do. Yeah. Talk talk. And but it's the same in the morning. Our morning ritual is um alarm goes off. I make first cup of coffee. That's what I'm responsible for. Then we get back into bed and we listen to our Bible and then her she's responsible for second cup of coffee. And so that starts about 5. And then she kicks me out and I go to the gym um and she does a series of biohacking modalities that we have at home um to do those sorts of things. And human beings love rituals. And if you can ritualize a good practice, then you will naturally want to fall into those practices. And with your thing on 3 days or 20 days, what I try and talk to people about is like how much do you want your life to change? Like it really does come down to a passion level. Like I just didn't want to be Yeah. me. I I wanted I needed to change. Yeah. that morning that you dealt with the tra the trauma head on or the morning that I dealt with where my addiction got me head on. I didn't care what it took. If you told me to go put my face in a bowl of ice water every morning and you won't get drunk anymore. Yeah. And you won't feel this way anymore. I would have done that. So that's why I want to hear I want people to hear that that that listen to the podcast is that there are so many different ways to try different things that will help you become better whether it's in your health or your recovery or whatever. And I think you got to give yourself permission to try it. And you don't have to like it. And if you don't want to do it, try something else until you find and I found a series of things that are very simple for me um that I do that I can do easily and repeatedly. And it's just just really good. The other thing I learned um I'm I'm an man. Europeans call us Australian Aboriginal. And part of our culture is to walk slow, speak slow, and think slow. and internally slowing the speed of reaction I think is a very essential tool because most of us who have come out of a traumatic background and addiction we're hyperfocused hyper performance we're like that when we got in they call it you know psychologically an addictive personality but forcing the world forcing yourself to slow down in the middle of a chaotic world is an incredible act of discipline and will will cause you to reap great results. Can you give me a couple of examples of that? What you mean by that? When you say slow down, are you meaning like the the even to the speed of the way you walk? Yeah. Or the way that you respond to people, emails, phone calls, all of that. All of that. Because you don't have to answer that text message. Now, now I've got some part of my personality where I need to take care of everything and get it off my plate. Well, I do that, but Apple's got this little button where you can push send later. And I always send later. Mhm. Because that means whoever is sending to me is going to get into the habit of getting something from me 12 hours after they ask. Mhm. And it is a way that I've used to calm myself down. It's the same with emails. Um, I deliberately walk slow and I will deliberately sit back in a conversation and take pause. Um, as opposed to feeling because a lot of us feel like we've got to engage to be involved and be on point and and and we don't have to like that comes out of a sense of insecurity as opposed to a sense of peace. Yeah. And when you're operating out of that sense of insecurity, you open yourself up for self accusation and to make mistakes as opposed to sitting in the peace and going, you know what, it's okay. You know, this is this is okay for me. Yeah. I don't have to say something in every question or to every comment. I just don't have to in every moment. No, every moment. A lot of times you look like the stronger person or the bigger leader in the room when you just you sit back and Yeah. Because if you don't open your mouth, people think you're clever cuz like you haven't screwed up yet. Yeah, that's that's [laughter] right. I think about so many people when you say that that I just sometimes I look at them in meetings and I'm like, you just really need to shut up. Yeah. You know, just and and you look at the other guy going, he's being quiet, but he doesn't know anything anyway. Uhhuh. Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. He's really asleep with his eyes open. Um well, let's let's shift gears a little bit. Tell me um you know, we had lunch a couple months back. Um, just tell the listeners, you know, some of the conversation we had. What are you working on right now? I know the app. Yeah, Phoenix Collective. Phoenix Collective. I'm I'm looking forward to being a part of that anyway we can. Um, but but yeah, explain a little bit about what the Phoenix Collective is and then just some some more of the work that you guys are taking on right now. So, the aim of the Phoenix Collective is to present um a series of tools to people over an extended period of time that are incremental changes. And if I can help people address, as I said, 1% a week, that's the only change we want to. I want an attitudal commitment from people. I don't care if they just sit there for 6 to 8 months and just turn up every Thursday and talk. That's okay. But to go through the work and to go through the books and to go through the videos and material and we've broken it down. It's a a video a day plus five to six minutes of homework. It's incremental little changes. It'll take you probably a total of 10 or 15 minutes. And so the first challenge we give people, are you worth 10 to 15 minutes a day, six days a week? Cuz if you're not, then this is not a program for you. If you are, then at the end of seven month, seven weeks, eight weeks, you'll see you will see change in your life. It might only be 5 or 10%. Uh, but we've seen drastic change. I've got one lady on the program at the moment. And in 3 months, she's probably where I was three or four years into recovery. And so, I am so pumped. Mhm. To see it working in people's lives. That's a huge jump. That's a huge jump. It's a massive jump. We do that. And we've got business partners. We run the Phoenix Collective and they run Wisdom OS and they're naturopaths and we lo use a lot of non-invasive diagnostic tools like voice reporting and iridology because iridology you can actually trace family tendencies back three generations. It's old Chinese medicine and voice report. Harvard's been doing studies on voice analysis for probably 20 or 30 years. And you can actually see the conditions that sit inside someone down to spinal issue, lungs issue, mental issues. And I've used voice analysis and frequency medicine um to help people with PTSD. A lot of it, a lot of it with mental trauma and trauma. If you think about it in in Genesis, God spoke forth the word. The word went forth and the word and voice is frequency. Everything around us is frequency. Everything is created with a sense of frequency with the timber of the word and the voice of God. Every every particle in your body, every organ in your body has a particular frequency attached to it. So if you've got an issue and the frequency of that organ is off, then you can actually tell in your voice. You can tell in your voice and you can tell in your eyes. So, we've got some tools to people because one of the issues with people with addiction um sorry with with trauma particularly post-traumatic and particularly those with had childhood or invasive things happen is they don't want to go and see a medical professional. Mhm. So, these aren't replacement for medical diagnostics. what they are as a supplement and often it's a starting point for people they can start there and see areas that they can address naturally or areas that they need to go and get help with and it gives them a little kick along and a push in. And I I've seen people with sciatic nerve problems um become well. Um I've seen people with dream issues, sleep issues, rheumatoid arthritis issues. I mean it's pretty profound. So this this program, this is working on things that are curable or some of it is just going to help you figure out how to manage it. Yeah, both. Both. But I I use I play frequencies all the time. Um I pray frequencies during the day. I I listen to frequencies probably four or five nights a week. There's a couple of tools I use for neuroplasticity and to reprogram my brain while I while I sleep. Kind of define that because some listeners may not exactly know what neuroplasticity is. Your brain is flexible. Um there's um man there's a couple of books that are out that there one of them the the name escapes me. It was a lady who had a stroke and she lost the use I think of the left side of her body and she retrained the right the left side of her brain to use the retrained aspects of her brain to operate that part of the body. You can do that. The brain is incredibly flexible and the brain can heal itself. So, so what you've got is the ability to be able to recast and regrow neurons and aspects of your brain from trauma imposed areas into um more in line with how you were created. So, if you imagine it's like a tree and and if the trauma happens, that tree bends and you end up with a memory node. You have to do work to release that so you can get your brain back operating where you were. So a lot of the people have intrusive thoughts. Addicts have intrusive thoughts. People with trauma have intrusive thoughts. And we get in a cycle of believing that because we're having these intrusive thoughts and we go, "Man, I'm having that intrusive thought again. I'm so negative. I'm so We actually think recognizing that is a bad thing." The reality is the moment that you recognize a negative thought or an intrusive thought is the moment your brain is trying to change it. So I'm stupid. I'm fat. I'm ugly. The moment you can hear that and go no stop is the moment your brain starts to change and you thought pattern only takes three or four days to start to change and rewrite new grooves. Now it's a long time to get it so you don't do it. So I just if I hear a negative thought come up I just go stop. I literally hold my hand up and I say in my head stop. I will not believe that about myself and I replace it with something else. The word's been telling us for years, you know, renewal of the mind. Dwell on this. Dwell on everything that's positive and good. And where we get into condemnation as Christians is we have this bad thing come up and we go, I'm so bad. I'm so evil. I don't dwell on all things good. Well, if you recognize the fact or understand the fact that the moment you recognize that and then you move it towards something positive, then I'm sure you've done it in recovery. You started to hunger for the coke, the drink, and you just had to stop it and go, "No, not doing it." So you Yeah. And so what you did was you actually started to rewire your brain accordingly. So it's that's what neuroplasticity plastic. Yeah. Your brain's plastic. You're not set in a rut. You are not condemned to thinking the way you think forever. You can train the way you think and therefore train the outcome change the outcome of your life. How much do you have to change? Okay, because this is important because in my book I talk about, you know, your playgrounds, playmates, play habits, but this all also goes to like things you listen to, things you watch, everything, man. I mean, all of that can play a part in Yeah. these things that come to your mind. Now, that's hard for me because I go back to Man, I love music from the 70s and 80s and 90s. No, who doesn't? And and 2000 skipped that whole decade. They ruined it. Taylor, bloody Who is what I'm telling you, sunshine. [laughter] But I mean, you know, I can't I can't say, "Well, I'm never going to listen that again because it may make me feel or think or zone out to a place where I was." But if I can have these exercises where I just remember that that's not who I am now. I'm just listen. I'm just listening to the music. You know what I mean? Bro, you go to the gym, you are going to listen to death thumping metal, lift heavy weight, five finger death punch or whatever it is, you know. I love that stuff, bro. And I also like EDM, which is really weird. My wife freaks out. Why do you like electronic dance music? Because I love the beat. I just love the drive of it all. But there are some days where I just won't. Yeah. Because I'm dark on the inside. And I think there's some days where I won't wear a black t-shirt. I won't wear black clothes. I won't have coffee. I won't hang out certain people. I will cancel an appointment instead of being with that person because they're negative. So what it is that's deep. I never thought about that. So what it is is an awareness of well you think of yourself if you're depressed and you're getting up wearing black clothes, black pants, going to get up and eat high fructose sugary food and then I'm going to walk out the door and try and perform. You you you forget it. You go back to bed. You're going to operate at 20% all day. So if I wake up and I'm feeling like that, then I will put on a bright orange shirt that I don't want. I will put on pants and I will make sure that whatever I listen to is not going to be what I want to listen to but is what I probably need to listen to or I'll go to the rec center and listen to them do bad country not even good country and because that's just what I need to do now tomorrow I'll probably be doing five finger death punch and something else and that's okay it see many rules make small men and I think in recovery I try and give people as least rules as I can just like in my Christian faith. Um, I don't have many rules for me. I I sincerely believe that we started with one commandment was like, uh, don't touch the tree, bro. It's no good for you. Okay. Well, you messed that up. Look, I'm going to have I'm going to have to give you 10. All right. 10. Look, you can't even do 10. So, we're going to write, you know, Numbers, Chronicles, and uh, Leviticus. Now, we're going to bring it up to 684 rules. You can't even do that. So, what are we gonna Jesus comes along? Listen. All right. Let's go back to two. Just Just stick with two. So God in his grace has always been getting us back to minimal. Love me, love those people, and everything else you can pretty much work out. And we want to give ourselves a bunch of rules and edicts and things. And so what I try in my own life is, well, I want to listen to thrash rock. Okay, well do that. Am I going to hell? No. No. I I was in the 80s when we burnt our AC/DC albums and it was an absolute shame my Robert Paige albums that I burnt and you know at Christmas well Christian revival bro you weren't you weren't in church we all had to bring our CD our vinyl to the altar and place them on the altar and I had a mate who was an evangelist going around the circuit doing that stuff bro he had the best collections of records he did he took all that he had the white album by the Beatles he had some of the original Rolling Stone stuff collect it all. He said, "But these kids just brought them to church because they were, you know, Satan's in the vinyl, you know, and you know, listening to some of that stuff does bring have ramifications. You know, you don't want to listen to Marilyn Manson all the time or 9in nails. That stuff's no good for you." No. And some of that I mean, I I grew up in the 90s. I mean, that's there's some of that that I do love, but there's some of that like it's just But isn't that okay? Yeah. Like it's like nah, it's it's okay. I just I don't It's just not good for me. Mhm. you know, um I just wish I could tell you that I leave here every day and I get here every day listening to the best, you know, Christian music radio. But I I'd be lying. Yeah. But sometimes Christian radio sucks. Mhm. So, and sometimes you need a little Eminem. You need a little math. You know, you need a little something, man, to flashback a little bit, you know? And there's some really good Christian music. No, there is. There's some great stuff. There stuff is now for sure. And I grew up on some great stuff, you know. Um, and but it really doesn't matter, man. Like if I if I'm listening to something and I'm feeling a sense of this isn't good for me. I'm not saying grieving the Holy Ghost music. That's a totally different thing. But I'm listening to something, but it's the same with watching something. How often do we sit because we pay our $11 a month and we watch something on Netflix, bring it into our home, and give our family permission to watch a series of sexual activities, and we do nothing about it because, oh, that's just a little bit on TV. It's like the the story about dog poo cookies. Have you ever heard that one? So, this fell This is on Netflix. No, no. This is a this is a story a fella told me once. the story about a guy he had he had had a couple of boys and and they went and they they he said look I don't want you to do this thing go and that and they said well we want to go and do see this movie I said look I really don't want you to because it's not good for you it's got some really bad stuff in it so anyway they snuck out and they went and did it and they came back he said okay so he said I want to make cookies today so okay he said you know Tommy I want you to go out in the yard and get some dog poo so okay and he had cookie dough so he took the dog poo got a little [snorts] bit of it put in the cookie dough and contented to make cookies put them all in the tray talking to the boys about living a life and all that. Put in a tray and came out and she said, "Any of you kids want cookies?" I said, "No, Dad. It's got it's got dog poo." And he said, "Yeah, but it's only got a little bit of dog poo, so it probably really won't hurt you. You maybe not taste it, but but it's still got dog poo in it." Goes, "Yeah, it's kind of like that movie. It's got a little bit of dog poo in it and maybe it's not good for you." And that's how I look at things. Like if I'm watching something, I'll turn it off. It's of a book I'm reading. I'll take it back. I'll walk out of a movie. I'm a great walker from movies or turn them off. But you're going to walk slow. I'm going to walk slow, but I'm going [laughter] to walk out. You're going to walk out because it's like, nah, I don't need this. Yeah. And even if I'm okay with it, my wife probably doesn't need it. Or maybe my kids don't need that modeled as acceptable. Yeah. Maybe I can handle, but maybe they shouldn't. Mhm. And I think that's part of our responsibility. And I think it's part of the inner witness is, you know, I'm just not prepared to have to do the time to cleanse my soul from that song or that movie or that relationship. Yeah. I just don't want to do it. I want to spend my energy doing that. I'd rather spend my energy elsewhere. I think it's all great, Dr. King. Well, I want to say this. I can't thank you enough for coming by. I I'm so grateful that we met the last time I was here and we could we could connect. I really think there's some things we're going to be able to work on together as we go forward. I know there is. Yeah, absolutely. But um I'd love to have you come back on the podcast. I'd love to, man. And talk some more in detail about other things, but um but man, you killed it. Well, thank you, man. And and I don't know if you meant to to talk about all of these things, and if there's anything we miss, please let me know. But um but yeah, thank you so much for coming by the studio today. When my book comes out, it's with publishers at the moment. I'm going to ring up and abuse a new friendship and come back to launch it with you. Yeah. Yeah. Have a virtual book tour. Yeah. I gave you a copy of mine, didn't you? Yeah, I did. I did. and I loved it and you gave me two copies and I've handed it over to some other people as well. Great. So, it's very good. Well, again, um we are so grateful to have you come by our our recovery about podcast. You know that we have the podcast. You know that we have the book. We also have these workshops now called the recovery about collective and we have our own coffee line now. So, I'm going to send you some free coffee, too. Bring that on, man. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming by. We'll see you again. What you need is a cigar line and send me some of those, would you? Well, why don't we do it together? Okay, deal. How about that deal? I got some good ones for you. All right, sounds good. Thanks, D.