No Plan B: The Fight to Save Our Marriage with David and Jahnna Cravens | Recovery Vow Podcast

In this powerful episode of The Recovery Vow, Eric Kennedy sits down with David and Jahnna Cravens of Relentless Hope to share their raw and redemptive story of addiction, trauma, and relentless restoration.

Their journey winds through jail time, relapse, blended family chaos, and years of dysfunction, but at the heart of it all is a marriage that refused to give up. From cocaine, custody battles, and closet relapses to counseling breakthroughs and radical faith, David and Joanna lay it all on the table. They open up about sexual trauma, spiritual warfare, Teen Challenge, and the moment they finally said, “No more Plan B.” Whether you’re married, divorced, or still fighting for freedom, this episode will hit home.

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• Transcript

  Hey, thanks for joining us on the Recovery Val podcast. Today I've got some really good friends of mine, David and Janna from a Relentless Hope um out of Florida. Yeah. Yes, sir. Now, here's why I'm excited about today. I'm You'll notice in this episode, I kind of just sit here and listen because they had a lot to share. But in this episode, they're going to talk about you'll hear blended family conversation. You'll hear some recovery conversation. You'll hear how they're serving marriages in their network. You'll hear how they have successful platforms, but at the end of all of that, you hear um transparency, um faith, and God uh and in the middle of what they're doing. But um I think the most important thing that you'll seek out that I heard in this episode was their hope just to to help one couple. If it's one person or one couple, that's what they're doing this work for. So sit back. If you're watching on YouTube, you can subscribe to our channel. If you're streaming on any of our platforms, you can uh listen there. You can also follow Relentless Hope on their platforms. Uh you can go to Amazon and get a copy of Marriage After Addiction, Take Back Your Life Together. We're so thankful that you're here with us. But uh just sit back, enjoy this episode, and uh we'll jump right in. Let's go. Let's do it. Welcome to the Recovery V podcast. I'm your host, Eric Kennedy. That's the goat to me, bro. Yeah. Yeah. That guy changed my life, man. I mean, I I get teeyed. It's how serious it is to me. So, is is one of Jimmy's sermons or marriage today what got you into marriage today? So, when we were going when we were going through it, you know what I mean? We were done, divorce papers, relapsed again, all this craziness. And I said, we had we hadn't been talking like it went to email only type of deal because if we did talk, it was a fight. And then we were doing stupid stuff like you left a sock behind my dryer. you need to get out of here or you got some papers, you know what I mean? And then we talk for like or we'd meet but it's also like a reason to talk what it or we'd meet you know like we'd be like hey come over and then you know whatever's whatever and then after that be like you cheating my mother and there'd be a fight and we leave. Anyway, I um got Merits on the Rock, the book. I can't even remember how I got it, but and my mom got it for me or something. And I read that book like one day, like sat down and read it. And then um there's another book of a local pastor who does a marriage ministry, um Pastor Gasper, and Michelle Anastasia. And I read Stop Hurting, Start Healing. That was their book, and they do a marriage thing, too. And um I told her I said I don't want to I don't want to get divorced. I'll do anything. How long had you guys been together? 13 years. And then we were friends before that, you know, a year and a half to two. Drugs kind of brought us It don't start off like I was walking across Billy Graham's Bible Institute. She come riding by on a bicycle with a dog in a basket. You know what I mean? Time just kind of slowed down. Yeah. Slow down. She swimmed her hair. And no, I was in jail. Yeah. And I got I Y'all been in jail? No, I I was in jail. I caught a I got myself in an altercation. I was in jail. I hadn't been in jail for ever cuz I'd moved from Illinois to Florida. I'm originally from Illinois. And um I had actually been a Christian rapper and seen some mild success doing that. But then I would do good and then get out. Do good and get out. You know the story. And um anyway, I moved to Florida, relapsed, went to jail. her ex, who they were on frisk anyway. It was just a drug relationship. I met him and I said, "When I get out of here, I'm gonna go to church." He's like, "There's a real good church over at the high school, you know." And I said, "I'm going there." Didn't ever think about the dude again. I'm walking through on a Sunday morning like 3 weeks later, and I hear somebody go, "David Cravens." And he knew like my whole full name. He remembered and I was like, "Oh, what's up, buddy?" And that's the first time I ever seen her. And that was his wife. That was his No, they wasn't married. Yeah. He was just a boyfriend. He was my child's father. Yeah. Yes. And they had been together for what, eight, nine years? On and off. On and off. Yeah. It was It was centered around drugs, you know. Yeah. And so it wasn't like a great relationship. No, it was over really. They were He was kind of dependent on her cuz we're from Florida where the pill mills This is back in the pill mill day. You know what I mean? This is Take me back to what pill day is. Like is that I'll let her get on the What year? 2008 2009 late 78 into 2008 9. Yeah. So y'all's drug of choice as a couple was pills. No, mine was David's was cocaine. Yeah. Mine was cocaine and alcohol. So I'm in jail. I catch the charge. Get out, meet them. They're on Oxy's and Roxy's and Oxycottton and Roxycodone. And um Janna was the hustler of the group getting the scripts, going to the doctors, getting that was big. you know, in Florida at that time, taking people to the doctors. Taking people to the doctors to get their scripts and so on and so forth. So, but I met her at church and they come walking in. I couldn't stand her. You know what I mean? I couldn't so tough, man. And so, what she did, you know, but but she had this later to go in our relationship to learn what how we were going to be and why God entrusted her heart with me. But she had this mechanism, this tough girl mechanism cuz she had to be. She was the man of the relationship, making sure things happened, make sure they wasn't dope sick, make sure the kids were taken care of, and he was just doing whatever. I won't get into too much about that, but and I um so they came into my life. I took him to lunch after church and um this is this is I'm going give you some game, Eric. You going to give me game? I'm going to give you some I'm bald and 6' three. I was born with Yeah, you got game. No, but look, I said she made an ice cream cone at this buffet and I go, "Dang, that's a good ice cream cone, girl." Mine was all sloppy and falling over. She's like, "I used to work at McDonald's." But um but no, and that started That's your game. You got it. That's the joke. But anyway, so um you know, that started a friendship and then drugs was involved and then he disappeared soon after. But I remember one time probably 6 months in this relationship, we were all at my house partying and we were sitting on the back porch and I was talking to Janna like having a conversation just about her life and we just talking. No, never hit on her once, did I? Babe, never was out of pocket. No, I really didn't. I was a mess. Yeah, she was she was in her worst, bro. The worst. And I thought these people are on pills, but all I do is cocaine. I go to work every day. like I'm better than these people over here knocking out eating chicken wings. You know what I mean? And so I had a talk with her on her back porch and I looked at her in her eyes and I was like, "Man, there's something special about this girl. If she can get away from him, she'll be okay. He's keeping her in this chaos cuz they got a baby together and she feels like, well, he's my my baby's dad and we're on drugs together and it was the chaos of it." Long story short, we were friends around. She went into Teen Challenge. I've heard a lot about Teen Challenge. Yeah. How long does that last? A year. At least a year. Yeah. And you're completely away from family. Well, you get there's certain stages of it where you get to see your family, you know, but you usually have to go through a few months and then you get visitations. So, you get after what they call family day, you get to go home with your family, you get to go eat, and then you have to be back at the center. But, um, no, it it changed my life. Changed my life. So for a listener that that's out listening to the podcast now, if you could look down the barrel of a camera and say, "This is what Teen Challenge looks like and this is why Teen Challenge worked for me." What would you tell them? You know, give me two pros from going to Teen Challenge versus somewhere else. Absolutely. So Teen Challenge number one taught me how to learn how to surrender. Um that was something I' I'd struggled with, you know, surrendering. And I mean there's there's so many pros to Teen Challenge. It taught me to be a worker. It taught me how to have discipline in my life. All the things that I did not have being a drug addict, Teen Challenge taught me and it gave me a chance to just start my life over. Is there a certain age where you can go or can't go? Because it's called Teen Challenge. Yes. And it started because Dave Wilkersonson started it in New York back in the day and he started it with teens, but then it became um about moms, dads. Um, so it is geared towards, you know, like 18 and over, but um, yeah, there's not a lot of teens in No, I mean, there's not like a kid program that I've ever seen. It's all adults, mostly 18. It's geared towards older, but it started being Teen Challenge with Nikki Cruz and Dave Wilkerson in New York. That's where it started at, you know, and and and that's where I needed to point out that it's not just for teens. No, it's anybody. And we're still we still go over there and minister and do our thing and you know linked up with the one locally and we've been to the big one in Orlando which is the regional one over there and do our thing. So it's a beautiful program. It's a faith-based recovery program man. Yeah. And I'm one day I hope for recovery vow to be not to take anything from them but just kind of have the same kind of concept like I want to be able to talk to married couples that have dealt with recovery. So that's their recovery vow to themselves. But you can apply recovery and a vow, which is a commitment to many different things. Absolutely. To to life. To life. I mean, people have dealt with sexual abuse, uh, sexual addiction. Um, you know, Brent and I were talking earlier about um just the sober curious audience that's out there. Oh, yeah. You know, just hearing people's stories. And so, absolutely. Giving everybody a platform I feel like is important. Well, it is. You're doing a great job, man. Yeah. There's so many different forms of addiction. And it comes in so many different ways. So Teen Challenge recognizes that isn't just about drug addicts, alcoholic, it's about all aspects of addiction. Yeah. Cuz the mom and dad, it could be the codependent. Yeah. You know, they're in recovery now, too. You know, even our brothers and sisters, you know, absolutely. We've brought them along through the addiction. Well, they have to be brought along through the recovery for healing. So, we've kind of been all over the place, but I want to go back to origin. Tell me tell me your lowest moment in or you can tell me your whole story if you want to. We can make this thing we'll make a 17 min. Nobody ever won't be on here again. But just take me through like uh you know how did you get to um where you are with Relentless Hope? Like what was your what was your low? I mean there's been a lot of lows over the life over our time. Um to fast forward Janna and I, you know, like I said, I've been everything from every state rehab and state facility and everything that the world will tell you from selling drugs to being locked up to divorce and you know, all everything. Ending up in Florida was my time. I was going to try to I was getting out of home, my hometown, Pure, Illinois, you know, and I was I was going to Florida and had a new baby coming and this was going to do this. Well, as soon as I got down there, it it didn't go the way to be honest. I'm totally transparent and honest. I went to a lot of churches and was like, "Hey, bro." Like, "Listen, um, I need some support, man." They're like, "Oh, yeah. Just pray about it, buddy. Give me a call." They wouldn't call back. Well, I do pull tables. I went into a bar. I'd have nowhere to go. I didn't know nobody in this town. They're like, "Hey, come over today." Like, they took me in and, you know, that put me right back into sometimes the church, they don't know you. And if you're wanting to be there, like, hey, and I'm not saying everyone, but they just they're operating off what they know. Yeah. Exactly. You know, that's my experience. Not. And then don't get me wrong, there's some guys that took me in and loved me and mentored me and I wouldn't be here without them. But at that point in my life, I missed it. So getting in Florida, soon on I relapsed really bad and um that would that would ride me in meeting Janna. Then once we got together, we were friends first, you know what I mean? We were friends about a year and a half, two years. She was my home girl. And then when she got out of Teen Challenge, I was still doing it. But again, I always thought my addiction was okay cuz I work hard or even when I wasn't work hard, I sold dope. So, I always had money to get my stuff. I wasn't a dude, you know what I mean? Riding B. I had two cars, motorcycle. But, but at the end, it all it was, you know, it all caved in as it always does. But when John and I got together, we she got out of Teen Challenge. She was cleaning my house for me to make money and helping me with my B. I had two babies, full custody of them. And um I couldn't be there when she was cleaning. You know, she was like integrity when she got out of Teen Challenge. Like, hey, hey. And um soon in we were like, you know, we were hanging out and doing whatever. And I just like, man, I think I love this girl, bro. Like, you know what I mean? And I was still going through a divorce at that time, you know? I mean, you're telling my story verbatim right now. Yeah. And and I was like this this girl and she changed and and she was, you know, strong and and she didn't take nothing and and she told me like it was and but and her and my mom clicked real quick. Mhm. You know, so even on early on in after I kind of told John I loved her and, you know, I wanted to be with her after we were friends, which ended up being a double-edged sword cuz she was my home girl, so she knew everything about me. So she'd be like, "Oh yeah, really? I remember you lied about this to somebody." You know what I mean? Type of thing. And my mom's like, "You better straighten up. You're going to lose her." And I was, you know, and you're going to mess this up again. Guess what's wrong with you? And um so cuz she's trying to get sober or going through teen challenge. She is sober. She's she was out of teen at this point. Yeah, she was out of Teen Challenge. I was um still getting high, but I worked. I could I don't want to say function, but I did function, you know, pretty pretty decently. And not a lot of people using cocaine can do that. No. No. And I knew I would say decently. Yeah. say you were holding it together, but I knew not to do cocaine during the day when I was working. Yeah. But buddy, when I got done, had a pocket full of money, like I owe myself this quarter ounce cocaine. I owe myself for this and I would go get it and then then that night then might take a couple days off then go back to work, you know, so on so forth. Well, then John and I once we got together, we knew we were going to be together. I was still married. I was I had been estranged from my ex-wife. I had Na and Jackson. They were babies. And I told her, I said, um, I'm going to go back and try to work things out because if I don't want to look my kids in the eyes one day and say, did and they said, "Dad, did you try everything?" Went back, went to a marriage conference and I went to Mark Driscoll marriage conference, which I was big on Mark still am, you know, and um, and I used have to pray like, "God, make me love my wife again cuz I was serving God, you Then I got straight cuz in this story there's a lot of um not relap. I'm sober for 6 months, eight months trying to serve God but then I and fell out and that and later on that comes in playing into our relationship of what the problem was. But um Can you tell me what you think the relapses were from? Oh, I know. I know what they were from. Um, so I was sexually molested at a very young age and I grew up in, "Hey." So once this happened to me until I got to a certain age where I said, "But I'll kill you." You know what I mean? Don't touch me. I told myself, "I'm going to be with as many girls as I can and knock any dude out or he's going to knock me out." And that happened, too. You know what I mean? Both sides. But um cuz I'd have to be a man because pedophiles are sick people and they make you feel something that's wrong with you. So then when I would go to church, I could I could tell you, "Jesus saved me from jail. Jesus saved me from drugs." I'm like, "But Jesus, we gonna leave this one right over here. We don't need this ain't no good pickup line. We're going to leave this right here." And um so it would be like Jesus owns three condos and the devil owns one. Jesus can't sell those three because Satan has real estate in it too. So So to sell the four, Satan would have Jesus have to buy Satan's condo out, right? Analogy. So for 40 years, I would do this and they'd be I heard this my whole life, bro. David's so anointed, man. God's got a call on him. Look, boy, when he's doing good. Where's Dave? We ain't seen Dave. You know where David? They fell off again, you know. And um and and I'll tell you one instance. I had a record deal. We went to Nashville. They were going to put us on a tour with Slingshot 57, all these big things. Me and my buddy split up on Broadway. We were walking down Broadway Street in Nashville. He said, "Hey, I'm going to go back to the hotel." I like, "Yeah, man. I'm going to walk around, think about this. I can't believe it, man. We're in Nashville. We've been working for this. This is like O2, something like that. And um I'm walking and the next thing I'm in a bar drinking and I've been sober for a year and something, doing great, man. Because why? Satan started going, "You got this." Hey, buddy. What if they find this out about you? So, do you think this the hype from getting that record label um caused too much of a celebration in your mind? You need to go acknowledge it. No, it wasn't a celebration. It was the fear of failure, people finding out the truth about it. So, it still went back to your trauma. It goes back that I can't what what if what if they find out this about you, bro? Now you're going to be on this or you're going to screw it up anyway. What if I started, you know, imposttor syndrome and and self-sabotage and and so that's real. That played in my life in relationships. And what happened to me, I didn't know how to love a woman, dude. You know, and and and again, man, and I've shared this on ours all the time, you know, my real dad, you know, at 15 got me cocaine and a prostitute, you know what I mean? Like, like I can imagine my 15-year-old son, you know, I was just going through the minds. Both of mine are over 15. I I wouldn't get them a happy meal. Yeah. Right. Mine better have the work done when I get They're not doing that well in school. So, I mean, I'm like, I'm not getting you anything. So, think about your dude's going out getting you cocaine. And so here I am in this hotel room and I'm thinking this is normal. So that starts another perversion from this perversion to this perversion where I can't be a husband. I got a wife and a girlfriend at all times. I got cuz and also I need somebody tell me I'm good enough and all these things. Fast forward John and I get together. I had never felt about somebody like I felt about her ever. You know what I mean? Ever in my life. And um and I was like man and then we started hearing this. We started going to church. You guys are a power couple. you guys power couple. You're going to change the world. Power couple. Well, now I have two babies. Now, I'm fast forward. I got, you know, I I filed my own divorce cuz that didn't work out. Something h you know, God God actually intervened. I I say I'm divorced. Yeah. Two boys. I I I went back and tried to work it out and some things happened and God freed me. I mean, really, you know what I mean? And cuz it, you know, we hear all things are possible. You know what I mean? It takes two possibles though, you know what I mean? And so we um fast forward, John and I got married. We skipped marriage count counseling. We did really do good not having sex before marriage. So we were really trying. Yeah. But we failed. We did fail. We did fail. About like two weeks before we moved like we moved in. We're not editing any of that out. No. No. Keep it all. We keep it real on the Recovery Valve podcast. You better like and subscribe. Share it. Yeah. No. But I'd rather for people to hear that you don't you're not perfect going in. You weren't perfect in it. You're not be perfect coming out of and we tried really hard but we knew we were going to be together and we get in the house and my stepdaughter Adriana is 11 and Na and Jackson three and a little yeah babies. So now we're like dysfunctional and you know sometimes when you come from a past and Janna's story is crazy as mine is you um you get told like you're not going to get the same trust. You know I'm not going to give you the same thing but you better do better. Yeah. Right. And so you I'm paying for past mistakes and I was really loving Janna. Like I never like like some of my ex-wives might got a little mad. They're like, "This dude never did this for me." Your ex-wife? Yeah. I've been married a couple times, but you know, I mean, I married all my kids' moms, man. Cuz cuz here's why. In my brain, my mom loved Jesus and was a Christian. Like, you going to have a baby with her? You better. So, I was like, "If I marry her, I'm going to do the right thing." Well, yeah, I did marry her, but I never changed. And I never went and got any help to change. And when it started getting hard, I just went and did what David does. You know, that's what my my first marriage failed too because of that. Like I I did these things to uh fix me, but I didn't do any of these things to fix the past. And so the person that did fall in love with me. I mean, I'd lost that a long time ago. We were just we were waiting on the end, you know, and and my recovery just became a part of the end, right? So that's why when you guys came in here, I told you like I'm not a marriage guru or professional or anything like that. I just know what happened to me. And so if I can give people a tool so it doesn't happen to them because not everybody wants to just give up on their marriage. No, man. I mean, some people want they want this thing to work even after a trauma like what we're talking about. Yeah. Even even like I said once John and I got together, we knew we wanted to be together. We knew she had radically changed. I knew then I got sober radically and we were trying to do good, but then the kids, mine, yours who who Nobody talks about that in church, bro. No, I never had nobody say, "Hey, this is the four laws of love, Dave, and if you put this in your life, this will change you, and you're going to deal with insecurities and and she's going to say, "This is my kids, and this is your kids, right?" And Yeah. And and two, when you're adding in a blended family dynamics, there really wasn't any any preachings on that until Jimmy Evans, you know, because I still operated in shame and guilt of and and learning where to put kids as a priority because I still operated in I'd failed you and I was this drug addict and you know, I did all these things to fail as a mother. So then it was real hard for me to put David first, you know, because I wasn't taught that. I was just taught, okay, now now I'm clean. Now I need to I need to prove to my kids that I'm not that same person. And that's where the headbutting. And so we were in church doing good. And just like everything, man, it started with pride. We were doing good. We had been sober. We're going to church. We're having a little bit of problems like we can get we can get a case of beer. Yeah, we deserve it. We can be social drinkers. I've heard a pastor say it before. The sometimes the greatest fall comes right before the pride. Something like something along those lines. I have to look for the fall before destruction, you know. And if I had the computer in front of me, I would have like looked that up real quick. Yeah, we'll put it on there. We'll add it on there. But um and pride cometh for the fall and and so we got we relapsed, but we closet relapsed, right? Cuz now what is that? That means around. Yeah. Like so we'll do like this. Hey, she went to work. She was working at a fivestar restaurant. I was my pool table business was busy. We worked all week and we get home. We'd buy a bunch of cocaine and the kids went to bed. We went in the bathroom and shut our door and don't get me wrong, kids were getting Jordans. They were eating habachi. Yeah. You know what I mean? But we were in the like this. And then what happens when you've been up all night and you're drunk? You cheating my all this old stuff comes up. And your attention is not on your kids. Yeah. And not on your kids. And this went on and then we'd go to church on Sunday and I'm like, I'm doing good. I swear, man. God, I cry. God, please, man. And I meant it. I meant it. Then I go home and order some cocaine for that amount of time. Then the cocaine again. Then then this went on. Then we do good. This went on. This went on. Then stuff got violent on both sides. Me and her. We be drunk, high, fighting, fist fighting, breaking mirrors. I mean, craziness. I mean, I could go on felony stops. We always say from felony stops the guy back on top. You know what I mean? Like, and um so then we got was going to get divorced. We were split up. Divorce papers filed. I got the book. Not filed. Not sign. I mean, no, we didn't sign them. We had them drawn up. Yeah. And um there was a um Kevin and Brie Bailey were on here. Yes. I don't know if you guys remember meeting and conference. Yeah. They were at the same point. Now they didn't have the drugs and alcohol like like you guys have. I think he did a little bit. Um but they did the exact they were separated and then had gotten to the point where they had the paperwork just to sign it. And and this is where when I got a chance to meet Jimmy, that's why you see me break down like little kid and cry as soft as cotton. And that's another reason, you know, Jesus is real. Cuz I can cry at the drop of a hat cuz I just want to see people's change, you know? And I told somebody the other day, they go, "Bro, they make they make fun of me if I'm honest with you." They're like, "Why you so passionate about marriage, man? I'm seeing these reals and make I go, "I'm not doing this for you, bro. I'm doing it for my kids. I'm doing it for my grandkids." Cuz my grandkids will never say, "I seen my peepaw." They'll say, "Hey, my peepaw was the marriage guy and wrapped in him and my Jon." I'm doing it for the legacy, not how I started the race, how I was taught, but how it's going to end in my legacy. So, I don't care if you make fun of me. You know what I mean? And we can go in a boxing ring. You want to talk about that, too? But then, you know, I get it though. I mean, how old are you? I'm 51. 51. So, I mean, let me tell you how accurate your story is to mine. And I don't know if you went and watched my podcast, but I mean, so you know, but um uh dealt with some kind of a trauma from uh mole molestation when I was younger. So I mean I get that um jail, divorce, custody, and these are all things you I I could barely do in a an addiction real life, but I mean I do it easy in recovery. And I I think sometimes I want people to hear that. It's like your story, my story are very similar. Um, but there's still a lot of difference in there that just got us to where we needed to be, you know? That's it, man. That's that's and making it through. And then we got, you know, back to us how we got in. I I got the book. I read the book and then, dude, I got like It's funny when we were here and Dave, we were looking at the thing. Ask him. He's like, "Oh, you just schooled me." I said, "Oh, no." Cuz I was watching the interactive. Uh-huh. Like cuz I went deep dive, bro. In the How long ago was this? 2016. 16. 2016. Went deep, deep dive, brother. I watched every old clip them setting. I watched the Hurt Pocket. I w I mean, I watched these old and I still do. If you hear me talk, I'll just regurgitate it. Why? Because I just kept putting in and then it started changing my life. And and the book that I had was Marriage on the Rock and it went through the hurricane of our life, but then it went through hurricane Ian was the only book I owned that survived. And Jimmy Evans signed it for me, man. That was a big deal to me. And um and here's the reason why it changed my life when I started watch I told her I said, "Hey, listen." You know, and and we we went in 2016. We jumped in. I mean, dude, we were going we went to some counselors and they'd fire us, bro. We go in the counselor, one's Christian counselor. We went in. We hadn't We wasn't living together. So, we walked in the counselor. I paid the dude $100 or whatever it was. And we was like, "You cheating, Mo." He's like, "Yeah, we were alive. Call this guy, right?" You know, you need some serious help, you know? And so, we went to another counselor. And finally, we found a counselor, bro. And you want to talk about having my number? And I grew up in the pool hall, man. You mean you got to get up by noon, try to fool me, bro? I've been around some slick dudes and I've been in some of the places, the biggest slick. I think we talked about that. I told you. Yeah. You know, learn how to play the pool long time ago. Yeah. And so, you know, but this counselor had me and and there was times we'd get mad and walk out and flip a chair and and you know, blah blah blah blah. Then we got to some root of little Dave, man. 8-year-old little Dave and little Janna, 12-year-old little Janna. There's some things that happened and um and then man, we were doing great. We were going to every marriage class. We signed up. There's a marriage class now. I went I get online. Here's a marriage thing. Let's go. We start conference conference anything and we were doing good and then for about a year and a half I guess right and then some things happened and again man I still hadn't seen nobody and talked about what happened to me though see and this is you want to carry it to the grave yeah I was still having it with me she didn't know then didn't nobody I still ain't talking to nobody and um I shared it with her some things happened and we split up a month later what do you think happened to my brain she don't want to be around you either. That girl supposed to love you more than anybody. And then we split up. Both of us did things we wasn't proud of. Infidelity was involved while we were split up. Um it was a wild months that we were split up. And then, you know, we've been sober 7 years straight. No relapses. Cuz then the last time we were like, okay, divorce papers filed or drawn up again. It's over. We tried. We gave Jesus a try and Jimmy Evans a try. So when you go to different divorce attorneys, go back to the same one. Yeah. No, same. I got the same one. Okay. He was on retainer. Yeah. I didn't know if he was going to be like He was on custody and retainer. He was He was like, "Dave, I hate to take your money." And I'm like, "Yeah, it's over." And um and we had to go ahead. You want to say something? No, it was just, you know, you're at that point of desperation where and I think because so many times in our life, we didn't know what a healthy relationship was, you know. So you always think that that's the option. divorce is the option because we're not getting the end result that we want. So, we're going to do what we what we normally do, which is run, right? So, until we got some serious help and and being grounded in these are our hurts and these are the things that we have to heal in our lives in order to be healthy and to accept each other. Until we got to that point, it wasn't going to work. Yeah. I mean, because there's not a lot of things that are just thrown in our face. So here's what you need to do to save it other than go see a counselor. Yeah. And there's different things for different people. Like a lot of our life's parallel. You know, you've been through things hers. But but we're all different people and our Thanksgivings look different. I always say, you know what I mean? Like different houses and you know, I came from a land of violence, man. You know what I mean? I see my dad do stuff, you know? And so, but once I got in and got some some Christian counseling, you know, a lot of times they'll say, "Oh, man. you know, just give it to Jesus. Yeah, Jesus can change your life. He might give you the shovel, but you got to dig the hole. And you see what I'm saying? And what happened is there's no there's no quick fixing like and I believe a lot of times in Christianity, and this is my my thing on it, you know, this ain't recovery valor. This is me endorsed, but is we sell a pipe dream. Come down front, say a prayer, you know, and and we do all these recovery church concerts. And I tell the dudes just like it is same thing at Teen Challenge. Anywhere I speak where there's recovery. I said, "Hey, bro. Just because you get your life right with Jesus, just because you start making some changes don't mean your wife's going to come back to you. Still going to hold that child support when you get out here, buddy. And still going, your transmission might still go out on your work truck on that day. You don't wake up in the morning and go, Jesus." Your back still might be hurting, right? But what I can tell you and guarantee you is I've lived on both sides with Jesus and that people die, cars break down, things happen. But if you give it to Jesus, you can start reaping a harvest that you want that'll start coming. And and and what happened was I got in and got told somebody and started getting some help. That wasn't my fault, bro. That that this, you know, and it was like, and when I tell you, there's a lot of people in prison walking around in real prison that are freer than people walking around with prisons inside out here right now. Cuz they get a chance to Yeah. That's all they got to say. That's all they got. And they give it away. They're freer than we are walking here with prison with no bars like this cuz you don't want I was in a prison man. 40 years I'd be a millionaire three times over and who knows where I'd be if I could have got if I would have did that if somebody would have told me hey bro that's not you and you know and that's when God told me he said hey you're going to start adding this to your testimony cuz kids need to hear this now and they need and people need to get this out now and know you know and so once that got free then then you know we started working again together and now here we are you know seven seven years later. So, when you were in jail and y'all had tried this, you you got close to the divorce two times on paper in like a year and a half going into the third. All right, we're going to just strike. We're not doing strike through. We're going we're going to hit it out the park on this third. Yeah, that was it. I said there's no turn. It came to a non-negotiable, Eric, where it was if you drink, if you do drugs, I'm leaving you. You know, I'm I'm taking the kids and I'm leaving. It was a non-negotiable. and and we let other people know. We had people hold us accountable and that's really what it was just like all right this is a game changer for us. We failed failed failed. We don't want to fail anymore. So we came in with non-negotiables and that was it. Yeah. I had a heart attack bro with an ankle monitor on and a stroke and a stroke. I had a stroke one day and a heart attack next day. Got out of the hospital came home the biggest line of cocaine you ever seen in your life. She goes what is going on? I'm like I mess everything up. Right. I went back into that because going back what I started saying when that is if you don't this if you follow this around without changing this this will get you in trouble. Okay. And Jesus comes into your heart and he changed your life. But if you don't hope without habits equals nothing. Hope without healthy habits equals nothing. Now if you get some hope and you get some Jesus and then you start renewing your mind and saying hey this is what and you get your focus on your mission there's no stopping you then. Right? And so once we put the non-negotiables, we got the help. We said, "This is this is it. We're doing this. It's David and Janna. And if they're not team David and Janna, they're not in our life." You know, cuz everybody was like, "You need to leave him. You need to leave." You know, and I heard um Janna say this a minute ago, and then I've kind of heard you say this now is that things just weren't in order if you looked at it um from the people you were trying to take care of. So before you're like, I got to do it for the kids. I got to do it. But then you realize it's not in supposed to be in the order. The reason is in the reason the order of God, then your spouse, then your kids. And that gets people, especially blended families, they get really hung up on number two. Mhm. Kids. So true. Why do I have to do that before my kid? Why, you know, my kid, it's not written that way. It's because one day those kids won't be with you when your spouse is. And I think Eric too is because our priorities were so screwed. You know, it was it was so hard to realize that, okay, because we didn't put our kids first. You know, our drugs, they were first. Our our habits, they were first. So now all of a sudden, just cuz you're clean, you think, okay, my kids are supposed to be first. But you nailed it on the head. God has to be first. And then everything underneath that because it all comes together. You know, it's like it's like a ladder effect. You can't climb to God if God's not at the top, right? And you go and each time, you know, if you go up a ladder together, you get closer. down, you come back down, you get further, right? That's right. And um and so that's that's what happened. And then again, now I had already, you know, I'm like I mean, even one time, bro, this is going to sound funny, but I was like, I even let Jimmy Evans down. I let every I screw up everything, right? That that was me. So you go snort line cuz you let Jimmy like I'm like I'm like I feel sorry for myself. Jimmy ain't proud of me. You know what I mean? Or whatever. Who know who knows what I said at some crazy time, you know? But but that was how I felt. You need to tell him that. I let you down one time when I started a line of cocaine and then you signed my book. Yeah. Yeah, thank you. But you know, and that was that's the thing though, man. Really, Eric? Let's think about this there. Where I live, we're number two in drug overdoses. Buddy, there's a church on every corner, buddy. I live in the Bible belt, my man. We ain't doing something. Yeah. Right. You know why? Because we make promises with unrealistic things that a person, a dude wants to hear, hey, listen, you got to change it and this works. You got to do it. But but but but I love you and it's okay that you did that. See, we think we got to come in and be so perfect and Yeah. You got to let them see a perfect life. But they didn't live a perfect life. Exactly. Or in their mind what a perfect life life is. And I'm thinking a comparison of like my pastor, Pastor Marty Baker. I put him on this huge level for several reasons. Never heard him cuss. I never will hear him cuss. I've only seen him cry three times. Um and I've known him for 15 years almost. And then um he just is the same everywhere. Yeah. Consistent. Yes. Consistent. Um he's never drank. He never will drink. But so he comes from that what's perfect to me. A perfect has a perfect life, right? Um where I don't. And so I can live in my head like you're talking about. But we all still we're all still in process. We're all walking. He wants the same thing I want. Right. Well, and the foot of the cross is level, buddy. Mhm. If he didn't accept Jesus, he'd died just like a dude shooting heroin would. You know what I mean? Like what what about thief on the cross? Right. Right. So So what happens is, you know, and I always say this and you know, I said this on our podcast one time. I was like, you know, I don't see Jimmy getting Brent a prostitute and cocaine at 15, right? So So obviously like like you know, seeing Brent are taking that's like th those dudes are like heroes to me. Not perfect. I'm, you know, nobody's perfect. No thing. But I'm saying, same thing. I look up to that like, man, you know, and I used to be like, I could never be that guy. I can, you know, you know what I mean? Like in my mind, I had imposter syndrome. I still do, bro. I'll get off I'll be on our way to our podcast and be like, man, I don't know why we're going down here and do this. Nobody, you know what I mean? And then I'll come off. Same thing flying here. Well, it's not about you. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's about Jesus. And and I also get nervous and um it's hard to put myself in front. Like I hated being about me too. I hated being about me. And it's all because I heard this from I think it was Christine Kaine. You know Christine Kane? No. She said this one time. She she said if the light that is on you is ever brighter than the light that's in you, the light that's in you will go out. That's good. So I have to remember that like just helps me keep my Well, yeah. And and like Janna said, it's not about about me. You know what I mean? like I'm not that serious, but but I want to and I'm sure you're you're going to understand this. You know, we did bad for so long. Look, I want I want I want I want to be, you know, when somebody tells me, "Man, I'm proud of you, bro. I I mean, I'll get teeyed when somebody's that knew me from the street, bro. That'll tell, you know, I took her to my hometown one time, like, you know who this dude is?" I'm like, "Let's leave those stories out, right?" She's like, "Yeah." I go, "No, you don't know that. We don't talk about that." Well, I mean, they was big, but small parts. I was either known to be the rapper like doing really good or the dude who was bad, you know what I mean? Like and um but when somebody from from my hometown or somebody who knows goes, "Man, I'm so proud of you, bro." Like, "Man, we're all rooting for you and see you change." That that goes a long ways with me because I want to make Jesus proud, man. I want I want to I want to be proud. I want I want exom marriage to know, hey, you know, and sometimes we look at, you know, a certain and and something Dave said to us while we were out there before we got on camera, he goes, I love what you guys do, man. You're for like the underdog, the misfits, right? That and I go, that's that's what I am, man. Everywhere I go, I misfit. They'll know I was there, though. But, you know what I mean? Or whatever. But but the thing is there's so many people in this world and what I was getting to that you know people ain't going to church. You know why a lot of them say I already been there. I don't want to go. I don't know. We're we're we're not winning a lot of people over. There's so many broken families and things that have been sold, you know, a pipe dream. And we just want to go, hey man, if we can do it, anybody can do it, bro. So I'm I'm gonna challenge you in my question. Yeah. Um, how would you change that? What would you do? And how would you how would you do it? Change what? What do you mean? So, like you say, the uh the way that people are looked at from the church, you know what I mean? How they're viewing us or or people that are trying to find the church, they're like, I'm not I've already done that. What What could you do to change their mind? Meet them where they're at. Mhm. But at the same time, challenge them to change by seeing we changed. You know, is what we talking about like a marriage class. could a lot of people wanted to come, but I knew for people we could really impact and and they could they could see the difference and see that we're just some real people that are going through life, too. Just because you get saved don't mean nothing. So, really is being Jesus. Sometimes the church ain't Jesus, man. It's a production. It's religious. You know, just that way after a certain point in size. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and and again, bro, I've been around some some of the best pastors in the world, and I've been in some big churches. I've been on some big tours with some bigname artists that you probably would know wasn't a whole lot of G on the backside, right? And I'm not saying every every person's like that, but it was a business and I've seen it ran like a bit and and we all got to run business, but I just seen things. So in my way that that why we do what we do, you know, not every person that comes on our podcast is a Christian and that's purposely. No, purposely. I want to hear your story. I want to know why. I've had dudes come on our podcast who were atheists who haven't missed a church service since they came on there. So that's the stories you need to tell too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and and went and came and watched us share our testimony rap and then went there. You know what I'm saying? Because you will be his Jimmy Evans. Yeah. And and that and the thing is there's always somebody in front of us that we're trying to be. there's always somebody behind us and there's somebody beside us walking, you know, and and and like me coming here and you giving us the opportunity like I'm proud of you, dude. I remember we met in Atlanta at the first conference and you had your thing and I was like, "Hey, man, we got a podcast." And then when I seen you again, then I was rooting when when they yelled your name. You know why I was rooting? We're the recovery boys. I'm like, "Hey, Dr. So and so, Dr. Recovery, we're on the same team." But you know, I nudge my wife. I said, "There's our one fan." Yeah. Hey, but but but really man, I'm proud of you because cuz a lot of times guys like us, oh dude, I'm going to talk, hey man, we'll talk about recovery. We'll talk about marriage for, you know what I mean? Or whatever. But marriage is the most thing that models God's love and the way it was designed, man. And and and so I'm so serious about it, about the legacy to leave that I eat it, breathe it, sleep it, and try to be. And I told her when we got back together, I said, "You give me the chance, I'll be the best husband that I could ever be." And when did y'all make that um that correction or that fix? How long ago was that? 2016. 20 years ago. 2019. 19. No. 18. 18. Yeah. 18. 2019. It was cuz it was when we moved to Tennessee. Okay. Yeah. 19. 2019 is when we were like after we we had been sober though. Yeah. Yeah. Been sober. And then we were like still working through it though. Like we got back together. We going to church, but we were still going through it. How deep in sobriety were you at that point? What? A year or 6 months, something like that? Year, six, been seven years. So, 1895. Cuz I'm walking around. I'm walking around your story a little bit cuz we've kind of been all over. Yeah. Talked about your origin. We talked about the trauma. Uh we talked about a low point in jail. But then I was Your turnaround moment was 2019. 18. Yeah. And is that when you guys decided to do Relentless Hope? Okay. So we like I've always rapped like my stage name was Doughboy for years. Christian rapper forever. My nickname was skiat because I was a cocaine hit. Really? I was Doughboy because I was a chubby skiat. Ski catat. Ski cat. Oh, here comes a ski cat. He's going to get ski hitting them lines. I get it. And um so we started doing the Relentless Hope thing at 16. I was already rapping and we had got, like I said, we had gotten sober. We started going and then we um people were like, "Hey, Dave, we need you to come and rap, man. Tell your story." And I would go there, but I didn't have no height, man. I was probably 150 lbs bigger than I am right now. And I'd be out of breath. I was like, "You know all the songs. Like, you're yelling, "You're going to get up here and rap." Have a hype, man. I didn't have a height, man. So, she got up and did it. And then the crowd was like, "Oh, man. This was cool. You and your wife, you know." And so, then we were like, "Okay." She started rapping with me. And then we were like, "We should." Everybody loved her up there, all the girls. So, we're like I'm like, "You're going to rap now." She's like, "I don't rap." I said, "No, really? I'm going to start writing parts for you. You're going to rap." And so, we started doing it then. Then, like I said, we had Did you rap? Yeah, I did. Yeah. But listen, I I didn't think of myself as a rapper. It was strictly to be his support, you know, because he didn't have a height man. So, it was strictly to help him and then it just kind of happened. And then we started doing it and then we had the relapse, right? So we she started just towing in. So I came up with the name Relentless Hope, but but then we wasn't really Relentless Hope. Then when we were going to work our marriage out, I said, "It all starts with a little bit of hope. We're going to have to be relentless with this." But I got hope that we can make it. And that's when we got really serious. Um and then we ended up moving to Tennessee to get away for a while. Was the best thing ever happened to us cuz then we got up there, worked on us. People, places, and things. people, places, and things, you know, cuz we were so bitter about, you know, being together and and then doing the things we done, we couldn't even drive around certain parts of town. So, we drive by you was there with him or her, you know, and and that's just real, man. And and so, cuz that's just the namesake you made. Yeah. Well, that's I tell my kids that now when I parent them, I'm like, "Yeah, a lot of times all you know by is your name." Yeah. That's true. And so, we we we got it. And then 2019 is when Relentless Hope kicked off and no plan B and no and then So what do you mean by that? Okay. So yeah, that's a good Yeah. So the lady that I said there was another couple, Pastor Michelle and Gasper, who still are our friends and our mentors to this day. They have the New Life Dream Center, which is like Teen Challenge but but faith-based. They were based in New York. And um actually our daughter, our one of our older daughters and her boyfriend are both in that program. They were both on fentanyl and um you know here we are the drug people talking getting people off of and our daughters if fentanyl was around back when I was doing cocaine. I would I'd be dead and so would you. I snort a gram in a lime. How scary is that? You know what I mean? I mean not even think about it. Now you know I have a buddy who's battling with addiction and he calls me and he's like Dave I'm trying to do good. I'm like listen bro if I was on the teetering of quitting drugs this would probably be the time you're cocaine. you don't know what you're getting. He's like, "Yeah, I got some fentanyl." I was like, "But you're going to go buy more." You know what I mean? And and so, but the new life, it's very scary, man. You know, man, I had a two step brothers. One died on a Wednesday, one died on a Friday, man. Same week. But same week. Yeah. Craziness, right? But um so um we they're in the New Life Dream Center. We were going to that church, Word of Life. That's where we went to marriage class. And Pastor Gastra and Michelle took us under their wing. And um and Pastor Michelle single-handedly besides my mother. My mother. Yeah. Besides my mother, you know, helped save our marriage. So, we're in a marriage class one time. And um actually Janna was there. I didn't show up. I was like, "I'm not going to this marriage class. We ain't going to make it." You know, and Janna went in there by herself. And um I had signed us up. She went in there and Janna goes, "Hey, Pastor Michelle, I can't come here no more. David's not here. I look like an idiot. And she wrote the words, "There's no plan B." She goes, "You and David are going to have a marriage ministry." And this was probably like what, 10 years ago, 8 years ago. It was a long time ago. Cuz we went back and forth with them. They never gave up on us. And for them to see us come here and do this is like a big deal to them, you know. But um and so Pastor Michelle said, and then one time the the last time when we got back together, the time the divorce was going to happen and um 18 or 17, whatever, Pastor Michelle had us, we we had a meet him at the church and me and John, I found out some stuff, man. I was mad, bro. And I said, "I don't give up." And this is the nicest lady in the world. I was like, "Pastor Michelle, I love you, but I don't give up." I'm not going back with you. She said, "Okay, David, I understand. It's okay, but God, you're going to have a marriage ministry. I was like, I hate her. And you know, fast forward, who if you'd have told me people would call me to get marriage advice, I was the worst relationship guy in the world, right? But God mad and you had I was mad and I never dealt with stuff. Once I dealt with my trauma, started processing it, letting myself feel it instead of masking it, humor masking and and overlooking it and anger. And then and started get back. I went back and I was like, "Well, Jimmy, let's meet Jimmy on the YouTube again. Here we go. And um you know got and started ordering a book. I'd order another book. I'd read it. I'd read read the same book. Read Marriage on a Rock three time, you know, I I started just getting this in and um we started doing it and then we were like we're going to do we're going to be Relentless Hope. And then we're like we're going to film a music video. We don't care if nobody listens or not. We're just going to do it. And we filmed a music video and it hit 100,000 views. We were like okay. So what did you want Relentless Hope to do in the beginning? Give people hope. just I didn't know nothing else but but see man I I knew I knew but you started this in one year of after a relapse. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, man. I mean Yeah. Like we the relapse Well, we were doing we relapsed and we're doing good and then we had a little a little like bump in the road, you know what I mean? Like and when some things happen and then we were still together, but you know what I mean? Like Yeah. Because Satan, he he always uses the same thing. He doesn't change his avenue of how he's going to get to you. And he always went after the kids. He always used my kids to help me, you know, to get in my head and I would fall for that every time. He uses the same tactics every time. Yeah. And it would start to then the older kids would start to make a wedge and I'm like, I'm out of here. And then my little kids, that's the only mom they knew, you know. And um so we started Relentless Hope. Yeah. 2019. Hardcore. That's what you were saying, right? Yeah. I thought you were saying when we got back together like that's when we that's when we I'm doing the math over here counting. I'm like, "No, we already went." Well, I want the listeners to hear like the timeline we went over. It's went all over the place. But no, no, it's it's totally fine, though. Yeah. 2019 is when we said when Adriana's 18th birthday and so Relentless Hope hits, it goes It starts taking off a little bit, but but what I wanted to do was just tell our story and songs and go speak and and we have fun, man. When we do a concert, bro, I mean, like we we rock it out, dude. We do it, you know? And so we were going, people were having us come. We did the video. It took off. We did another video. We got asked to go on a tour, the extreme tour. We went on tour, took our kids. Um, then we got rocked by Hurricane Ian. You know, this was like 19 2021, you know. Then CO had hit, you know what I mean? Or whatever. Everybody was at the house. Yeah. Everybody was at the house. Then we started a podcast at our house when CO hit and but we were the editor. My 8-year-old was the cameraman. I'm yelling at Well, y'all are doing good cuz I've looked at all your stuff. I mean, you're hundreds of thousands of followers. It goes, man. Yeah. That's, you know, the music already we were at like 40 or 50 just from the music doing it. And then the podcast, we we went in and we said, you know, fast forward to a year ago, we we were already getting asked to go rap. We were the rap, you know, like in our city, we're known to the husband and wife for the people on drugs. That's the ones you want there. You know what I mean? We come and we're telling our story of hope and what we we're always sharing our marriage and and exom marriage marriage. We're always telling, "Hey man, if you, you know, you can make it." And then we um got to the podcast and got the opportunity to go shoot it and we're like, "We'll do it for 3 months, you know, see where it goes and and we'll see what it is." And is anybody going to want to hear us? And and man, really, dude, we went down and started talking and was real open and then released it did and then didn't release then all a sudden it put us in a different algorithm. So, what's your target audience when you guys are doing Relentless Hope? Is it couples that have dealt with some type of addiction or is it couples that are dealing with blended families or is it couples that are just working through issues or all of the it's all of it. It's it's like this. A 16-year-old kid probably is not going to drive and listen to Relentless Hope. You give me a 35-year-old dude coming off heroin is trying to make things right or wants to see his kid in a custody battle. Yeah. And they're listening to you guys because of your story and because of the work. Now, what do you offer them if they reach out to you? If they reach out again, now we're at this place where I didn't know it was going to grow this fast. Yeah, Eric, I didn't see us our Instagram jumping to that quick. I didn't see that many likes. I didn't didn't I You know what I mean? I Listen, man. I don't do it for a view, you know. Yeah, I don't either. Yeah, I don't care. Numbers are great. Yeah, numbers are great and it's cool to gauge and and this, but I do it for souls, man. I don't, you know, people care how much you charge them and we rap for change. Not just change, but change. You do whatever, we'll be there, bro. If I can, but anybody you want to bring me on recovery vine and let me talk, I'm gonna be there, bro. Cuz and I appreciate the opportunity. And I don't take it lightly. Any person to sit down with me and talk. Well, and I want to be able to network with you, too. That's why I'm asking if listeners are going to listen to this and they're like, "Okay, this this is a group or a couple that I could see myself working with because what I offer and what you offer is it's going to apply to different people." Just like we were, like you said a minute ago, we're different people in addiction and we're different in recovery. So, I want people to hear this is what we're all about, you know, where we're at now. We're at this thing, the niche, you know, we talk about niche, business is business, and and you got to make sure you're getting the right people that are watching you is, you know, we we had a lot of people in church come up and say this to us, man, I really get you in Janna or John, I really get you in David. He's got two girls. I got two boys. We come here, we don't really fit in, we don't feel, you know, God's changed him and us. We both kind of came from this and we're like, "Hey, you're our people, right?" Yeah, man. We got to be relatable. Yeah. Cuz sometimes it it is what it is. You walk in, you feel condemnation. Not maybe it's on yourself. You're putting it on or whatever. You know, you're not, you know, for I don't know if it's a real name, Greg and Marcy from that that met at Bible college. And and Marcy, it's funny that you use Marcy. I don't know who Marcy is. Marcy, no. I mean, no, there's not a there's not a Marcy here, but just you're trying to think of the most proper name for I was thinking like Dave and Johnny. Here they come. Where they staying? We're staying at trailer park out there by Fort Worth. You know what I mean? But but you know, like they come in and they've been married the they grew up in the church together and and the kids play lacrosse and everything's perfect and then here comes we're like the Brady Bunch with a boom box, you know what I mean? Rolling up and you know and this kid's going here and this kid and who are you now? hours either. You know people sometimes people are already scared to go into a new church unless they don't feel welcome or there ain't nobody they when you walk in a room when you used to party walk room you look for someone oh that's my okay I got that guy's like I know I'm sitting you know and and so we just want to reach people that think they've been counted out you know and and I don't care if you've been married once twice just just be the last one right and and saying you can do this man it really it really does work dude if David was do I'm telling telling you anybody can can do it. It wasn't easy and I'm still learning and growing every day. Something I think I'm over with sometimes I got to go back redo it, you know. But but I do know this. If you hold something and you're not free, Satan Satan's running you, bro. Mhm. God can't do I'm not saying God, you know, can't change your life, but he can't get in there fully and do what you're called to do. And I think people need to hear that you can ask for forgiveness again and again and again. He's going to be there waiting on you. A lot of people think that if I ask for forgiveness from whatever my hangup is or my hurt, um if I go out and do that again because I just, you know, I'm working, I'm in process. People think, well, I've already asked for forgiveness and it didn't happen. I have to just forget about that. But that's not the case. No, it's not the case. I think Eric so many times I I would go through that and think that God couldn't forgive me. But see, he never left me. I left him. I put him on the side street. Well, Jesus, I'm going to go do this again. He was always there. He never left. It was me going back to him and realizing this is this is the real thing in my life. Yeah. He's a dad that pulls up the tassels and runs after any earthly father. Yeah. There's there's nobody that's got this figured out, man. No. You know, now there's people in different grades, I like to say. You know what I mean? Somebody might be in 10th grade on this and I might be in third grade and they might be in C. You know what I mean? And and we're all in this together. And it's and and it's changing and it's the process. And you know, I'm not the same guy I was a year ago, two years ago, three years ago, four years ago, 5 years ago, six years ago, seven years ago, 8 years. You know what I mean? Thank God. Yeah. Thank Thank God, man. Right. And even now, I'm learning, you know, I kind of come from, boy, quit crying, you know, suck it up. Come on. And and I'm learning that of being a father to, you know, it's kind of like we're raised like this. I drive a Ford. Well, I drive a Ford when my daddy drove for. Yeah. Why Why' he drive Ford? What my granddaddy drove for? We're Ford people. Well, you might like a Chevy if you bought it. You know, I mean, that's what we drove Ford. And so, I was kind of raised and, you know, you work hard, you don't cry, you somebody says something, you knock them out. I mean, I was, you know, and so those behavior patterns, just because you say a prayer and start going to church, those behavior patterns, they come back up when I get irritated at work, like I don't understand why you can't load a truck, right? And so what I'm relearning and and thank God we got a gracious, merciful God, man. And and and all the content here, man. You know, I watch your stuff. I watch Brent's stuff. I watch Jimmy's stuff. I go uh you know, Dan Liam stuff. I I go back and watch all these things. Why? because I can learn from every person and add it. You have four different points of views coming. Yeah, exactly. And and I added I go, "Oh man, I'm horrible at that. I got to work on this. I'm trying to make a skateboarder a guitar player." Yeah. Can't make a skateboarder a guitar player. I'm trying to make a princess a volleyball player. You can't make a princess a volleyball player. You got they're little human beings that are growing. You got to let them be them. And um you know, I told this story thing. It said me and my son was driving and the kids were just being lazy, man. Ungrateful and lazy, man. And he's 15. He's a hard worker. and he runs our social and he makes it pop and I've talked to him a couple times. Yeah. You know, he makes it pop and great kid, you know, and and he's a hard worker doing pool tables and he works with the place where we, you know, Tim um Jarrett 239 live studio, shout out down in Florida where we record and he goes and works with him and and does stuff. But they were being ungrateful, man. And I was just having a bad day and and you know, one thing I love about Janna, she's like, "David, you're doing it. You talking to me like that. I know you're stressed. I know it's hot. I know business is going on. We got a lot of stuff going on cuz our plates's full just like everybody else. I think that's why I pointed out that I'm not a marriage guru in the beginning cuz I I'm still I apologize to my wife all the time. Well, I mean, even when you hear, you know, any message they talk, it's still, you know, you know, the the four laws work everywhere except in the car. You know what I mean? Like it don't work with us either, buddy. You know, and um and so Jackson and I go get we need to go pick up a set of pool tables. He gets in and we're driving. We're trying to talk to him. He's got headphones on. I go, "Hey, man. when my son gets back, give me a call because you're an ungrateful brat. And I and I said some some mean stuff. I go, you know what, man? You got And I watched the life get sucked out of him right now. What I was saying might have been true at the time or what he was doing, but it wasn't the right way to handle it. And I took out a lot of stuff on him. And and we turned the corner and he goes, "There's a homeless guy walking with a dog." He goes, "Well, you could be that guy, right?" My son says this. I go, "Well, at least he's got a dog." He goes, "At least you got a wife and kids. your life ain't that bad, buddy. Got it. And I was like, you know, and then we drove, we didn't talk the whole way. We drove back. I said, "Hey, man. I'm sorry, bro. I shouldn't talk to you like that." He goes, "It's all right, Dad. I should have been better." And then I wrote the probably one of the best songs I wrote in a long time called Life's Pretty Good. Right. And but but what happened was my dad never would apologize. He said, "Boy, you better be thankful you riding in this truck." Right? You know what I mean? And so, like you said, we're all trying I'm trying to learn how to be a father to leave that legacy, right? And you're I've said this a lot before. I said it in um Atlanta. You've got to be a generational breaker, not a generational blamer. Yeah. Oh, that's good. Because because I'm like you. I mean, my dad's a good guy. But he learned from the way he watch things, you know? So, it's just I can continue it by the way that I talk, the demeanor I have or the way that I raise him. But if I want them to be different or have it better than me, then I have to be better than than I was. Yeah. And and it's an everyday thing, man. Like I said, even even being a good husband. Mhm. Right. Being a good husband, being a good Christian the best I can, trying to trying to serve God, you know, and and and things that I change. And, you know, obviously there's a line of convictions that we've lived serving Jesus that we believe, how we live our lives. And then there's the areas, you know, like like like something that don't get talked about addiction. You know, like I said, I've still got about 60 pounds I want to lose. I've lost 10 and something. But food is an addiction nobody talks about. That's the most acceptable. You know, I had a dude I had a dude one time tell me in church, he said, "You shouldn't have them tattoos. They'll send you to hell." I said, "That buffet going to send your wife to hell, too." But I ain't saying nothing about it. No, no, that was trying to be funny. I'm sorry, Jimmy. Yeah, I apologize. I'm sorry. You brought me on here. Eric brings me in the exo place and I get his car kicked out. No, no, no. I was doing that to make fun cuz I was like he goes but but you know you know what I and and you said that but then you know I said it shouldn't have said it you know joking kind of but but what I mean is there there's so many things that are addictions that we're all trying to get over this stuff man. And so there's the convictions. We know Jesus died. You know what I mean? We know the ten commandments and we know that how we live our life. We don't lie, cheat, steal. We we know that we serve God and he's first. But then there's these other areas like I know a guy that will go drink two beers. Does that I mean he's bad guy. I mean that's no different than somebody taking some melatonin and going to bed, right? Or or whatever. Now me personally, two turns into six, six turns into 12, 12 turns into bondsman and then and then you know arguments. So I just don't I eliminate it all from my life. I don't and alcohol is my gateway. Me too. Cuz once I had enough liquid courage I could go just make all the bad decisions I want. It has nowhere on my life. And I used to be Janna used to say, "David, why are you know I work, you know, working, you know, we say, you know, work boots and hammers every day." You know what I mean? We live it. And you know, people when you get done working on a, you know, doing a job, guys, hey guys, all want a beer. And I used to be embarrassed, bro. I'd be like, "Nah, nah, we got still got another one." And then John goes, "David, why you should be proud of that when you come?" Now I'm like, "No." They're like, "Why?" Like, "Why? Why? Why do it?" Like I'm proud of, you know, sobriety is my superpower. Jesus, you know what I mean? Like it's Jesus and sobriety. Who thought I could be who I am? And and you know, I thought I had to operate at that. Either either I was doing it to to try to get hurt or I was doing it to stop hurt, right? You know what I mean? And so, but just because somebody else can do something in moderation and that's between them and God, man. I'm not God in their life, and I don't make my God, you know? So, all I try to do is say, "What can Dave change to be the best Dave he can be? He can work on his relationship with God. Try to be be where I'm at with him. Try to fill his presence. Try to seek after him. Study. I used Man, I knew so much Bible, bro. I've been set in so many churches and went to a Christian school and but I didn't study the word and apply it to my heart." You know what I mean? I fall short of that all the time. We all do. We all do, man. And you know, so doing that, it's like, what can David be to be the best guy serving God and then the best husband, the best father, best employer, so on, so forth, man. And I and and you know, people people say, you know, hey, man, you're doing this and and it wasn't easy, bro. I mean, it's still not easy every day, but I mean, I've said this before, there's no successful people in addiction. And so it's you've got to stay in process and in work just always trying to make yourself better than you were six seven eight years ago. Yes. You know yesterday. So how many um how many couples or people are is Relentless Hope working with actively right now? Four. But but but four couples but I mean but a lot of a lot I mean this girl man my wife dude just she has the gift to check on people. I mean she sets me you know, reminders and our calendars are linked. Everything is drives me crazy. It's like, I gotta check on so and so and I got, you know, so she has countless women that she mentors and and then I got a lot of guys and then we've got four couples that we're doing a marriage class with right now that we started doing it. And then, you know, there's a lot of I mean, there's a there's a lot of messages that come in and stuff, you know what I mean? And to be honest, if Jackson didn't field it, who knows, really. So, are you guys a for-profit or nonprofit? No, we're nonprofit. We're for profit. We don't we're we're not a 501c3 or nothing, man. Yeah. To the point we really need to be. And and this will now this will be transparent and prideful. This will sound prideful what I'm going to tell you. I didn't do a 501c3 because I didn't want to ask nobody for nothing. Okay, let me let me let me tell you something that's going to make you laugh hopefully and you'll understand. I was arrested one time for panhandling. So if I can ask people for money for drugs, I can ask people for money to help people get off drugs. Really? Wow. Yeah. When I went to when I went to jail for that second or second or third time, it was for asking for drug money. Well, and and my buddy broke it down to me. He's a very good businessman. Very good. And and it was it was pride though. That's pride. That's what I'm saying. It's I'm not saying that because oh, I don't it's pride like I I'm going to do this myself. And then the same guy that says he don't want no help will complain when somebody's getting help like, "Well, I wish somebody would." They're like, "Well, buddy, there you ain't giving them no what what do you want him to do?" Right? And so, we're at the point where it's getting ready to change. And but, you know, Relentless Hope's been blessed, man. Like, we've got some We just got a really big sponsor back where we're from. We always make jokes, we move pool tables to do music, man. You know what I mean? Like, cuz it puts you in network. you you're going to be in front of people. We talked about this before on this on the podcast. You're going to be in front of sober curious people because of the work you're doing. You have the opportunity. Even if you just leave a card or some book or something followers like that we do and we're we're you know we're in we live in Fort Myers, Florida, but we're in Naples a lot which is like second most richest place in America. You know what I mean? Judge Judy lives here. I've done her pool table. You know I've done a lot of Brian Erlad. I've done a lot of famous people. Keith, I've done a lot of people's pool tables, but um I'm in homes, buddy, that you you know what I mean? Like homes in Port Royal, Florida. Nice, nice, nice. Like the founder of Best Buy, like you know, all these homes. Do you know how many guys have followed me to my old F-150 telling me about their relationship? Really? Because me sitting on this camera or me doing the pool table or me talking to Eric out there or doing I'm the same dude with I don't I don't change, man. You know what I mean? Like that matters. And when I say change, I'm saying the the way I carry myself. You know what I mean? Like, hey, yeah. I don't need you to be pastor David. I'm not going to come in here and go, well, and you know, and I'm actually ler of somebody that answers everything with a scripture. Well, you make me a little nervous, buddy. You don't need me send you no money. You know what I mean? Like like that type of thing. And and I'm saying all that anybody who does that, I'm not knocking them. I'm just saying what makes you uncomfortable. Yeah, it's it does because I've seen a lot of it. But but really it goes back to what we're saying. you know, how would you be the change is basically all he's asking me is when we're in these homes, I'm in these millions of million dollar homes. And I was talking about something and and the guy goes, "What do you do?" I said, "Well, man, you know, I've been doing these pool tables. We do a podcast. We do music." And he's like, "What's it based on?" He's like, "Well, recovery and marriage." And he's like, "Really? I've been married 35 years." I go, "That don't mean you got a good marriage." And the lady goes, "Absolutely." Right. And then he's like, "Well, what do you mean?" I'm like, "Well, you know," and I start telling him went right into the four laws, buddy. Like, right? I was like, "Well, you know, God intended it." You know what I mean? You got to have priority, pursuit, partnership, purity, and you know, and broken down genes. I started going over it. And then I go, "Cuz what happens?" I start telling the story. I was like, "Used to I'd write it when you get you a Jimmy Evans costume." You I could Well, I could Well, I got actually I do it I do it with a little more outlaw flare on them, the four laws with an outlaw thing. But, um, I said, "You know, when when me and her were first talking, I'd ride a bicycle with flat tires over the Kusahachchi River to see her, right?" Well, you wouldn't stop. I'm coming, buddy. You know, I see that smile, but I saw John smile. I got I'm got to get over there. I had a bad day, right? And then, you know, once you get him, I'm like, "Ah, shut up. You hit your head. Come on back. Get out there and undo the trailer." Right? You know what I mean? Or whatever. So, and I I started telling I told that story like that to him and the lady starts laughing. I go, "You got to date her, man. This million dollar home don't mean nothing. Pool boy might be coming here. You don't know what's going on, right? Like you and not everybody knows who Jod is." Yeah. Right. Yeah. Exactly. And so I'm like, you know, and and she's like, "Yeah." And then I went to one time, you know, and and then they're following us out like, "Man, we love you guys. We've had to make us cakes, ain't we?" We've had couples make us cakes, me and her doing a pool table just telling them about our story and and we're there for like two and a half, three hours setting it up, covers just me and her that day. And I'm like, "Yeah, man. If you'd have seen us," and this has been some years, you know. I was like, "If you'd have seen us, you know, four years ago or two years ago, whatever it was, and I started telling them, man, God changed our life." And we got and dude, they they when we were leaving, it was like we were going to college. They were like out there going, "Bye." And $15 million house. Bye. Got their number and took them out of dinner. Well, a lot of these people, man, I I like there's a lot of people that I talk to, guys that are way more successful in business than me, made a lot better moves than me in life, got a lot more book learning than me. You know what I mean? But one thing you can't fake, and that's authenticity. Well, and and I also think about um you know, I don't think God set you up in that role to cross those paths for no reason. No. No. And that's getting to where I was saying about the pride thing. My mom goes, "Well, David, you're in all these homes. What you're doing is these you need to be asking these people. Tell them what you're doing. You're making a difference. You know, you can only make a difference so far." You know, like somebody asked us not too long ago. So, are you in full-time ministry? Why aren't you guys doing this full-time? I said, be honest. I got to go move Pool Tables, Bud Jackson's braces. Yeah. You know what I mean? I gotta go. You know what I mean? No. I This is a This is a nonprofit. Yeah. So, if I'm not asking for money, I'm not operating. how you going to do it, right? And and that's the thing where I was at. I'm like, my buddy, you know, they have it and he's got it set up and he's like, "Bro, you got to, you know, you got to you can't be paying for this out of your pocket. That's that's stupid business." He's like, "You're offering, you know, what you're doing. You need to set up, you know what I mean?" And and so we're in we're in the works of doing doing all that now. And you know, it was it was pride like, you know, goes back to my childhood like, "You don't want to ask him for nothing." You know, my dad be like, "You don't want to ask for no ride. You walk there." You know what I mean? And and I my biggest thing for me is Jackson, for you to get married, have a baby, have the same wife your whole life, then they have a baby and that not have four different baby moms, not have, you know, the drama, the that's the why I do what I do to try to give you some stability in the way God designed it, you know, and so but there's no other Tim Tibo. How gangster is Tim Tibo? Do you know Tim Tibo? Do you know how many girls Tim Tibo could have had on the on the Florida campus and the drugs? Where was he at? They said either reading his Bible or the playbook. You know why? And saved himself for his wife. The biggest stud in my eyes, like Tim Tibo, she'll tell you I'm the biggest Tim Tibo fan in the world. Jimmy Evans, Tim Tibo. That's your two. That's my two guys. So if you get a tattoo on your back, we're going Jimmy on one side and Tim on the other one. Well, I got one on my knee right here. Jimmy and Timmy. It's okay. So, I'm walking with them every day. Every day you're walking around. Timmy. Timmy. Jimmy getting a little This is the bad one over here. Getting a little old right here. This knee is This is my bad knee. Nah. But um but no, but think of that though. Like, you know what I mean? So, there's no better testimony than squeaky clean. But statistically, there's more unsqueaky clean in the world than there's squeaky clean. Yeah. something another thing the church don't we don't talk about in the church a lot you know like ah you know at our church they love us hey that's David and John there's the wild guy he's going to come in but he loves Jesus cuz I'll match there's something we don't talk about a lot and it's in the Bible a lot and that's the motive of our heart yeah man and a lot of times I say stuff just to mess with people to see how they react when I'm talking in a conversation it's just how I am isn't it baby a lot of it's planned I'm going to say it just to see how they react to it what I do and to mess with like overly religious people I like to do that it's fun for me. But but but but really, you know, they'll tell you Dave's motive. It'll be to John will be do it'll be our event. We're rapping. We're the headliners. Where do people We give all our merch away and John is putting the tables up and wiping mopping the floor. Why not? We're not saying that bragging cuz we're servants, man. For dude, for anybody even want to hear my story, I was known to be the biggest. Nobody ever wanted to talk to me. Yeah. Right. Ask for your advice. No. They don't want to. So for me to do that and see that God and he gets the glory of it, of course I want to do it. But but like you said, a lot of people can't they listen man and and and John will tell you, I dumb down my life story a lot. And I'm not saying there's people that everybody's got a story cuz you either going to think I'm lying and you ain't going to believe half of it anyway and there's no need to even go into it. You know what I mean? And so for me to say this, you know, you ever meet somebody, you go think that dude's a weirdo, man. I don't know. Why is that guy like that? Then you hear his story, you go, I can't believe how normal he is, what he's been through, right? Every bit of me sitting here at Exo Marriage on the Recovery Vow podcast with you, bro. And again, I can't thank you enough. Us seeing Brent come down, you know, he's a marriage marble, man. That he's the man to me, bro. You know what I mean? He's I'm his doppelganger. Yeah, you do. Kind of. Yeah. You guys You guys both wear them them hats. You're going to get like there, you know. You guys do you got to make up for being bald. Yeah. Well, you know, you guys look good. This this a 51y old hair right here. I wish I had 51. But but I'm chubby, man. You know what I mean? You got to get one or the other. You know what I mean? But um you know, for me, I don't take it lightly for what we're doing, man. I'm I'm grateful for every day. And if I can change one person's life, and and I know I speak for her, then man, that's what we're here for. And the views are great. The the comments are nice. Somebody come, it's all great. But it's it's kind of funny what we just found out is that we want our kids that we're being generational breakers for to be more squeaky clean than us than what we were. Of course, just to make it cool, you know, cuz it wasn't cool to us in my thinking. No, you wasn't cool. You know what I mean? You want you're supposed to do that party and if you didn't do this, you know, I always make a joke and Jackson, he always asks me a lot of things. He got me this book says, "Dad, I want to hear your story." That's, you know, for Father's Day that I got to write, you know, different things that happened. But he said, "What would you change if you could go back to being in high school?" I said, "Buddy," they'd be like, "Hey, this girl likes you." Be like, "Sorry, I'm studying." Yeah. Hey, we're going to Sorry, I'm studying. Have you ever told your kids your story? Oh, they know my story. We're open, very open, man. We're very well, they live through some of it. You know what I mean? And through their through their younger years and our daughter Adriana, little older, and the older ones of course, but um but yeah, they know it. I mean, they know they know everything about me and they know why we're so passionate, why we do what we do. You know what I mean? There's nothing like we had the marriage class and my son-in-law, my daughter Adriana who's 23, my son-in-law works for me now, Max, man. Blessing, dude. He's there came in my life and she went through some rough times. You know, her boyfriend got shot five times and murdered and um we had a fallout and I was a little hard in areas, you know, I was like, you got to get out of bed and get over this. and you know and anyway did some things but she she went and went to school became a nurse and you know her and Max and it was a strain because we're on here talking about marriage and God can do this family but our own daughter we had nothing to do with them and you know you can you can get your life right with Jesus serve but all relationships might not be restored the way you want to do it no and you got I mean I had a daughter get married my older daughter and I wasn't invited to the wedding I had to take that on the chin man yeah it was hard did you work the 12 steps at all yeah I mean I've been through yeah so I mean you remember you you make amends. And I think the reason they point out you make amends and don't ask for forgiveness. I think that's the way it's worded is because not everybody's going to forgive you, but at least you just know that you've cleared the air. You did it. That's why you write the letter if you can't talk to them or whatever. And you know, and we have time. And I had to take that on the chin. And that's the same thing about Jesus. You know, just because you accept Jesus, you know, sometimes in a program, whether it's regular 12step or it's faith-based, you're in a bubble. Especially faith-based, you're in a bubble. And and like I said, our daughter and Mike, they're in New Life Dream Center. We're so proud of them and they're doing great and I could just see the chains on them when we see them at church and stuff. But that's your life, right? Teen Challenge when Janna was in there, that was her life. She knew when she was going to work. She knew when she went to church. It was safe, right? And sometimes you get back out into the real world and you're like, "Oh, wait. Child support's not Oh, now I got to pay the light bill. It ain't just me going to do a car wash to keep this going." Right? And I think we set people up for failure if we're not very real. And what I get a lot from our audience is, you know why I love you guys? Cuz you're real and transparent. I don't And and you're real and transparent. You just How many times have you said you I don't got this figured. I don't And neither do we. And neither does anybody upstairs or anywhere else. They they might they might have some better coping skills and they might have had a little more um consistency, but but even if you listen to to the, you know, Jimmy's thing where he came from for how he had to learn, you know what I and he changed it for his legacy, right? And that's humbled, you know, we were humbled and and we remember what got us here and we remember what got us here. That's right. You know what I mean? So, I think it's great. I think what you guys are doing is great. Um, I would love to figure out how Recovery Val can support or benefit or help anybody that you're working with. Not to not to replace what you're doing, but to come along with what you're doing and and help. So, uh, I'm gonna give you guys a couple of copies of Marriage After Addiction. Yes. Um, because I want you to read through it, tell me your point of views. You like a review? Definitely. Definitely. And then, um, if we can partner or help with people that that you guys are dealing with and and this I don't know how many folks you work with that addiction is a part of their story by the time they get to a few. Most of them. Yeah. But like I said, Recovery Val is a nonprofit. So, as a nonprofit, I operate the book. M um and when I say I'm operating with the book, I want the book to be in as many hands as possible, not for profit. No, I buy them in bulk, not give them away. It's it's to change lives is to be a tool. And then I've got the podcast. You guys are on the podcast. We record here at EXO Studios in Dallas or have a studio in Augusta. And then the other thing that makes up the nonprofit are the workshops that we're launching. So we have this education department that I pitched the idea to to the state of Georgia and they approved it for their counselors to go through. So, if the counselors go through it, they get their ongoing credit hours. But for like the workshop we're doing here tomorrow night, it's it's for free and it's a way for us to continue the conversation of just helping people find recovery and then if they're married, helping them understand how to be in recovery together. Yes. The workbook is super practical. I mean, it's I mean, look how thin that is. I mean, it's not meant to be intimidating. It's not overwhelming, right? And so when you get to the end of each chapter um and chapter one starts at the beginning like helping you understand what uh addiction is and what recovery is for your spouse. Yeah. Um and each chapter there's 13 chapters. So if this was given to a group to be like as a small group 13 weeks in a small group um we can do a train the trainer. So if you have people that work for you and they need to know how to go through the book but like the workshop tomorrow I've just broken it down in three sections and we'll go through it. And that that was one of the thing too then we were talking about in coming to the workshop you know when you asked me are you going I was like man I signed up for you even posted on there man I already did I already went through and checked but um that's that's what I'm thinking like you know as we're working through stuff now I I don't see like this marriage group we started with the end I see okay we finished this now we're going to start this for all our people that's in addiction and go. So really it's it's going to the ne you know I was already thinking like I'm going I'm going to pick Eric's brain there to see cuz cuz I would rather I don't you know what am I going to do sit down and try to write my why wouldn't I just use yours? You already got it. You got it done and let's go. You don't you never know. I mean um but yeah I mean as a nonprofit I want to be able to give it away. I can't take any of this with me. My whole prayer from this came from a legacy prayer. um like what can I do to leave behind what was freely given to me but not rewrite how something's already being done so it needs to be supplemental go along with whatever but I love but yeah I mean I just want it I just want it to be something that helps you know one person and right now it's been one or two people a month really that'll just email or call hey I've started read through this book or it's just crazy what God has been done doing especially when you see it it's one thing to know that you're you know you you know what you're doing is helping people. Somebody's going to watch and see you when somebody emails you or texts you and tells you personal. That number is more important than followers to me, man. Listen and and and go back. Yeah. You know, a lot of people get focused on the the followers and the even though that 70% of people that watch it are nonfollowers probably on on most things is is a guy that's been coming to our marriage class than what I was telling you watching his life change and you can keep all the followers. You can keep that. Give me that guy, right? Give me that guy and and another of that guy and another guy. But, you know, to make a dent, we got to we got to keep it out there. And the way we do that is together, man. And that's that's why I told you, you know, we're we're here for I'm in your corner. Like, I'm rooting for you, man. Like, and when I say it, I mean it. Anybody else? Don't know. I was in a room with 4,000 people. I only heard you shout. You heard it. By the way, you heard both of us. Yeah. Well, yeah, she yelled, too. I was like, we got to yell again. But, but the thing is when when I say it, I don't have many things, man. Like I said, and where I'm at now, my word and what I do means a lot to me. You know what I'm saying? And when I get when I'm get behind somebody, I'm like, I'm there's a lot of people that'll tell you, "Yeah, man." It goes back to thing, but really, you know, I may not talk to you every day doing, but I'm like, "Hey, man, that's my guy. Go check I mean, I'm like, hey, go check him out, man. Go follow him. Go." I appreciate that. And that's what we're going to do is we network. As I have more people on like you guys. Absolutely. Just building a big network. We're not here to take anything from you. Like, if people call us and they need Relentless Hope, then I'm going send them your way. Man, man, I I you know, she'll tell you I wake up at 4:00 every morning, no alarm clocks. They do it, baby. Have a full conversation. I'll go, you know what? We could do, right? This this is where my mind goes. I'm waking up here now. I'm an hour ahead. So, I'm up at 3:00 this morning. I'm like, we could do a whole mar. What about the recovery marriage conference? Eric and his wife, then we do a concert. So, you're like me, but I'm like that at 11 o'clock at night sometimes when my my work brain really turns on. Yeah. It won't will not shut off. And but I start thinking of that like I don't look at things as an accident you know that hey you know we hit it off you do a thing you come I look at it as man where can we how can we see change we're going to do a lot more four of us your wife you me and John then then you're going to do or I'm going to do or she's going to do or she's going to do right so and I look at the big picture like why not it all starts with the dream man you know what I mean everything starts with with a little bit of hope you be relentless with it you know and So, that's what I see, man. And we're we're proud of you, bro. We're honored to be here. Um, and we just thank you, man. Yeah. Well, I want to say a few things before um I do my intro, which is at the end, but uh I want to say this to you because I know it matters to you because you're wired this way. You are doing a fantastic job. Thank you, man. Keep doing what you're doing. Keep doing what you're doing, sir. Um, and it doesn't matter if it's four couples or one couple today, tomorrow, whatever. You're doing it for them. That's it. And what you're doing is important. Yeah. So, keep doing it. Um, however, I can come along and help you know that I'm here to help you. I'm here. But I just want you to know that I'm proud of you. Thank you, ma'am. I know what you've been through. Yeah. Um, I can hear it in your story if your story is like mine. We've been through a lot. And so, the legacy that you're going to leave that you prayed for Yeah, you're you're laying a path for that. That's good stuff, man. No, I appreciate it.