God Wasn’t Done With Us Yet: Saving Our Marriage Twice with Andrew and Natasha

In this unforgettable episode of The Recovery Vow, Eric Kennedy sits down with Andrew and Natasha to unpack a jaw-dropping story of addiction, infidelity, near-death illness, and relentless grace.

What started as a whirlwind romance soon unraveled into years of secrecy, stolen medications, and betrayal. As a nurse, Andrew found himself caught in a full-blown opioid addiction, one that cost him his job, nearly his license, and the trust of his wife. Just when Natasha thought they’d hit rock bottom, she uncovered an affair and knew this was the end.

But that wasn't the end.

Years later, after healing, counseling, and sharing their story at XO Marriage, tragedy struck again. Andrew became critically ill, placed on a ventilator, and came within hours of death. Once again, Natasha stayed, this time living out her vow "in sickness and in health." Through grief, trauma, recovery, and redemption, their story is a testimony to what God can do when you refuse to give up. If your marriage feels beyond repair, or your past feels too heavy to outrun, this episode will remind you: there is still hope.

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• Transcript

  Hey, thanks for joining us on the Recovery Val podcast. Today's episode, I'm pretty excited. I met these friends at one of our EXO conferences back uh February 2024. So, I've got Andrew and Natasha here, and they're going to share um their story uh that EXO has shared uh in the past when it comes to recovery and infidelity. But then there's also this new story of um getting back home and and having a spouse who is just truly truly and really sick and needs your help after, you know, these other things that uh have happened. So, I think this is going to be a great episode. I want you just to sit back and listen. And if you're watching, you can follow us or subscribe to us on our YouTube channel, but all of our other platforms, you can stream on all of your favorite platforms, and we'd love to have you listen in. So sit down, sit back, and just enjoy this episode. Welcome to the Recovery Valve podcast. I'm your host, Eric Kennedy. All right, guys. So, you guys started uh you had this 10-hour conversation on your first date, talked for like a week, and then you considered yourself dating. How long did you guys date before you got married? We dated for a year and a half. A year and a half. Okay. Before we That seems normal to me. Yes. Yeah. That seems quite normal. These these younger folks, they just they they blew my mind. I'm so glad I'm not out there. Oh, I worry about No way. We can do it again. No way. Dating is awful. Yeah. And then we got engaged and then got married like days later. Yeah. So, we we just awoke really. Um I was in Greece on a um school trip. Um and so he was joking when I was gone. He was like He wasn't joking. Well, he wasn't joking, but when I was gone, he kept saying, "When you get back, we're going to get married. We're going to get married. We're going to get And I was like, "Whatever. It's fine. Whatever, dude. Um you just miss me, that's all." Um and so when I got back, he was like, "I'm serious. I want to get married." Um and in Texas, you have to wait 3 days. So, we went and got our uh marriage license and then 3 days later we just got married at the courthouse. Well, we had a friend that was leaving April 2nd that I had worked with in the ER. His wife was a nurse in surgery with her and they were leaving healthcare to be full-time missionaries in Zambia. And this was like March 30th or something. We were telling him about it. He's like, "We're leaving April 2nd." So, you got us on April 1st. So we got married on April 1st. Pe people's travel plans and love you just can't hold back at the wedding. Yeah. All right. So walk me through got married but then these things happen, right? These big things that brought your story to XO and for thousands and thousands of people have heard your story, but there's going to be listeners that this is their first time. So tell us, you know, what caused um a mishap in the home that led you to a recovery bow having to happen? So when I met him, he had told me that he had a back injury from um lifting weights and sports in general and and all that. And um and that he had a prescription, you know, taking prescription painkillers for that. And that's not uncommon. There's a lot of people that have back injuries um or injuries in general and they take prescription painkillers um and that's just what it is. Uh it was about 6 months in that I noticed he takes a little bit more than he probably should um a little bit more than what you probably should. So usually you take one to two every four to 6 hours, one to two uh pain pills. and he was taking two to four pretty regular every four hours. Um, and but he was functioning and so it was a little bit of a red flag but not a huge red flag because he could still work and function and be present and um not slurring. Didn't look like out of it any of that stuff. And so I just thought, well, he's hurting and he needs these pain pills. Had built up a tolerance. Yeah, he had built up a tolerance to it. Um, and so it did get to the point where, um, he was trying some other things to help with his back. Um, and they weren't working. And he started acting a miss. Um, and it got to the point where he was slurring like, you know, he would be passed out on the couch in the middle of the afternoon, you know, for no reason. And I'm like, why are you sleeping so much? like you're taking a lot of pills and I didn't know that it had escalated to um some other things. So, when you're taking this amount of pills, some people are going to be like, well, he's taking one or two extra pills, but you're taking that at this point to have a different feeling than what they were supposed to be giving you. Were you drinking with them, too? I would some at night. Yeah, cuz I remember like when I used to take if people had pills when I was drinking, of course I'm you're going to offer them. But there's a certain thing with percoet like if I took a couple percoetses and then drink with it, it's an it's a euphoric like Yeah. So it's and I've never been a fan of alcohol like I'm just it's not my thing but it would magnify it. Yeah. Yeah. Now I will I want to say this too before you guys keep going because I want listeners to hear this. like when when we talk about um hard conversations, I don't want to bring anything up that's going to cause hard conversations after this moment. If it's something that you guys don't want to talk about, I mean, it's out there. We've talked about it. Um but I mean, you've had some things come up since, right, the health and all that. So, yeah, lead us through uh the the big uh rock bottom moment in your marriage before. Um so, I was on a medical mission. um in Honduras and this was at the end what 2015 October 2015 October of 2015 um we had already gotten married and and at that point I think he had tried to stop taking pills, you know, and cut back, but it just didn't work for him. He tried on his own with no help or anything like that. Cold turkey one day. Um and it just brutal. It was bad. And so, um, I knew he had started taking pills again. Um, and so I was in Honduras and I get back. You were pregnant at the time, too? Yeah, I was. I had found out I was pregnant. Um, and so when I got back from there, he picked me up from the airport and I could tell he was just like in a he was a mess. And he said, "I got fired from the hospital." And I said, "What did What happened? like why would you get fired for, you know, and he eventually came out and told me um I got caught stealing medications. Yeah. Cuz my other question before when you said you were taking so much was how are you getting them? Right. And this was before the whole opioid pandemic awareness or whatever. So doctors didn't have a problem left and right. Here you go. And so, um, at that point, I knew he had a real problem. A like I knew he had a problem before, but this was on another level. I mean, we're he's a nurse and he got caught stealing medications and got fired from a hospital. Um, and then got turned into the board of nursing for that. Um, and so then it comes out, you know, I'm like, you have to be honest here, like what is the extent of this? Um and it wasn't just pills at that time. He was stealing um was it fentanyl? Just anything. Anything. So when we give medications um in the ER as nurses um if we don't give the full dose, we waste it um is what we call it. And so you have to get another registered nurse to come in and they watch you pour out this medication. morphine toilet or usually or sharps container or um they have an area that's just for the waste but um it's you know morphine fentanyl those kind of controlled substances cuz I was thinking like what are you guys doing with leftover fentanyl right how are you dispose of it so that's how we dispose of it usually you get another nurse you have another RN in there um and you say hey this is what I'm going to waste I gave this much this is what's left and they say okay um and they, you know, right, that they've witnessed that waste. And so, it's just so easy though when you work in that environment and with people that you trust to just be like, "Hey, I got it." Especially if you're busy, you know, in um and so he explained that a a lot of the times with the waste, he would just keep it. Um and so he wouldn't waste it. He put it in his pocket and then he was injecting morphine and fentanyl IV. It happened just by accident one day. We were busy, had a trauma come into the ER and pulled some meds. Everybody was running around and I just set the the vial in my pocket and thought I'd deal with it later and had totally forgot about it and then got home and was like, "What's in my pocket?" And I pulled it out and I was like, "Well, this is medicine." like somebody like tried to rationalize like I just can't throw it away and uh so I had set it up in a cabinet and left it there for a while and then it got to where it became a common thing and it was like well I'll never I'll never mess with it. I'm not that type of person. But you kept it in the house. Yeah. And then over time I had a collection and then one day it was like maybe just a little just to see and then it just snowballed. Yeah. And when you found it, Yeah. cuz women are cut different. What was the first thought you had? Was it to like, okay, this is not the marriage I want, or do I want to help my husband? Well, I felt stuck because I was pregnant um with twins with twins. Um and we I felt like I had walked through that um season of the pills with him and thought, you know, we were through it. And so I I think I felt a lot of grief really because I thought everything is a lie. Everything, you know, that I thought was true is a lie. Um, and this person that I thought I knew is not this person. Um, and you just start thinking about every scenario. you go back and you think, "Well, that makes sense now why he was falling asleep on the couch or couldn't have a conversation or we'd watched a movie and he couldn't remember that we even watched that movie." Um, and those kind of things. And so there was grief in that. And then um I almost felt like I felt like I had to fight for him because nobody was. And it's hard to see your husband. Yeah. I mean, he's struggling. He's got something he's dealing with. Yeah. I mean, and and you hit rock bottom at the point where everybody knows. I mean, and and a lot of nurses work on everybody. Yeah. Everybody knows nurses work at a couple different hospitals, you know, just kind of everywhere. And so then the word gets out, hey, this is what happened. Um I was teaching at a nursing school at that time. And so I was teaching nurses, you know, things about legal and ethical issues. And then they're like, "Well, your husband just got, you know, fired for stealing medications." I'm like, "Yeah, he did. You're right. Did it hurt your job?" It didn't. I had And I actually work there now. Um, and so I work with a lot of great um, women and they're um, Christian women and there was a lot of grace in that. Um, and my boss, she just had so much grace and she actually taught him in nursing school. So once something like that happens or gets put on your record, can you ever bounce back from it and go back to your line of work? I had a year of a whole bunch of stuff I had to do and random drug tests once a week for 6 months or something and eventually went through everything and it's back to normal now. Okay. Now, when I met you guys, we were telling that story at EXO. Mhm. You guys have been known in the the EXO world um through that story. And there's some other things that go along with the story too, right? There was some infidelity. Yes. And then so let's talk about that because there's going to be listeners where they're dealing with a spouse that Yes. is in some kind of addiction, uh some kind of a substance addiction, process addiction, porn, and and so those types of addictions, process addiction leads to this kind of addiction. Um, so not only did you get all this news of, hey, my husband's lost his job, he's got this issue, but then how soon after did you find out about the other issue? So I found out he was having an affair in 2017. So that would have been 2 years after. And that wasn't happening while he was using medications. that happened after he had gotten clean um and was working again back from the board and he was working again. Um but he had never really um gotten to the root of the issue. So the the pills were masking, you know, the the trauma um and the pain that he had that he had never dealt with and just kind of suppressed it. Um and so you know we've done a lot of counseling and talked to um counselors about this. When there is an addiction um and you don't deal with the root of the issue, it's going to come back and substitute for one for another. Right. Um and so that dopamine hit of hey, I'm not supposed to be doing this, but I am. and um sneaking around and hiding and um getting that dopamine hit that just replaced that pain pill, you know, um in a sense. And so I found out in the end of 2017 that he was having an affair with a coworker um and and it was devastating. We had sold our house and moved in with her parents when all that happened. we were in the process of building a house and so yeah, we were living with my parents. Um and then he I found that out and he of course moved out and we were separated. Um so divorce was talk about Yes. divorce was planned on and then we had met with our pastor at the time. This was Januaryish. Yeah. and uh he had a Jimmy Evans book up on his his desk and was talking about XO and he was like, "Y'all should really look into going to this." And we were like, "We'll go, but we're going separate." Yeah. I didn't want to go, but I was like really my mindset was I'm just here to say to say I did it. Yeah. And did everything and almost justify my mind like I I have every which I knew I did have every reason to leave. I did. Um but really it was like just an extra check mark for me um to do that because there's just a little little bit left in there where you may want to fight for your English. Well, and I knew he was hurting um and I I knew the issues that he was trying to mask um with doing this. And a lot of thing with addiction too is you have self-destructive behaviors. And so you self- sabot sabotage um and you do these things because you think you're not worthy of of having somebody that loves you um or cares for you or any of those things. And so I I kept telling him, "You're just doing these things because you would rather um self-destruct before anything bad can happen to you or I can leave you or whatever." Um then I could at least say, "Well, it was my fault. I caused it." Did you do you think that those things that you dealt with, is that from a traumatic issue that happened as a when you were younger? When I was in the eighth grade, my mom got sick and she was like my person growing up. Um, and about two and a half years later, she passed away. Nobody could ever figure out what was wrong with her. And so it was like August of 2004 before my junior year that she passed away. And going through church, it was like all I was told was, "Pray for a miracle. God can heal her. Pray for a miracle." And then she dies and it's instantly she's in a better place. Move on. And I'm like, "Well, I know she is, but what what do I do?" And my dad had taken a new job where he was gone a ton. And so I spent a lot of time at home alone. And thankfully I never drank back then. I never tried anything. I just buried myself in sports and any kind of competitive thing. And so I'd never dealt with that. And then I can remember when I was on pain meds one night laying on my couch at home thinking this is the first time I haven't felt that. It was cuz you're on pain meds. Yeah. And I thought I don't have to feel that every day. Like no these can keep me from having to carry that. And so when all this happened I still had never went back and dealt with any of that. Mhm. It was rough. That sounds like it was a tough tough spot. So when you got invited to come through the EXO, when we say we you came to EXO, y'all went through mediation? No, this was before all that. Yeah, this was in 2018. Um, we went to the conference. Um, it was our first conference and so uh we were separated when we went to that conference. What happened at that conference? Did something happen at that conference that made your mind start changing? Absolutely. I mean it the spirit moved and the thing was too people were talking about hard things. Hard things like infidelity um communication. I mean all these things where we' never gotten in church. No. And I think we have done a huge dis disservice as the church by not talking about the hard things. um and and letting people talk about those things and you know having a platform for those things and and EXO did that. Um and so that was the first time I had really heard people on a stage in front of a you know large crowd talking about these issues that you would think oh people don't talk about those you know you're that's your business that you keep behind closed doors and you don't talk about those things. Um, and so it was so refreshing to me to think I'm not alone in this. Um, people struggle with things and there's a way out and there's a whole room full of a bunch of people probably dealing with similar. That's what happened to me with sobriety. I heard other people's stories. Yeah. And if I can hear of, you know, you know, Andrew, Natasha, Paul, whoever going through some of the similar things I went through, but then you, this is what the other side looks like, right? That's good. Gives you a little hope cuz then you know that, well, you're talking about infidelity. Some people are just going to immediately check out, but if you can hear, I'm not saying that this is what's going to fix it, so don't go out and do it, but you hear that other people can get through it. There's some there's some importance in, right? And we're at a place now where we've never been. Yeah. Never. I mean, not saying that nothing has happened since then because things happen. Um he did relapse, those kind of things. But um we've been in counseling for how long? Years. Four years. Consistently for four years. We go to um marriage counseling at least once a month. Some people are like, "What's wrong?" I know. Immediately when I'm like, "Oh, we have uh, you know, counseling." They're like, "Why? What's wrong?" Some people just go just Yeah. Like we look forward to it cuz I'm like, "Our kids aren't there. We don't have a phone. There's no TV." And we just get to sit and talk about what's going on in life. But that has been key for us. And I think really for him that has been the the foundation is being able to um have consistent uh counseling and then having people in his life um community guys around him that have struggled with addiction in different forms um and that hold him accountable. Yeah, you got to have that. Yeah, you have to. So, um, when you were going through the counseling, um, and they were telling you about the person in the addiction or the person that caused the issues, did they create things for you to do to help get through it other than just talking to you or let giving you a space to vent? It was really just a space to vent and talking there. And there's not any resources for the spouse. Um, and how I really got through that was I had a couple of other women that had gone through that, um, and were encouraging me, um, and really pushing me to get in to the word and get in my Bible, um, and just let God move and speak and, um, and work on myself. Yeah. Um, and it took a long time for me to realize, and I didn't realize that till probably a year or two ago. Um, and it sounds so cheesy whenever he told me he was like, "I couldn't love you because I didn't love myself." And it sounds cheesy, but it made sense to me now on this side of it. Um, and then really realizing, I mean, truly realizing that this wasn't about me. It had nothing to do with me. his addiction, his affair, anything like that had nothing to do with me and that was freeing and that's hard to to accept. Yeah. Cuz you won't I think you want to or whatever reason. Well, yeah. And it's the highest level of intimacy that's been betrayed. Yeah. On this earth, you know, and so um it it's hard to not think this is personal this is a personal attack on me. Um, and so when I really came to realize that, um, it was probably the most freeing thing for me. That's good. Yeah, that's really good. You people need to hear that. Yeah. Um, now I do want to just spring forward. You you worked really hard to get through this season, which sounds like it was a long season. Mhm. And then you made it to uh two Februaries ago, you made it to the conference. Mhm. That's when we met. Yes. But then something tragic happened after this conference. Yes. And Andrew got real, real sick. Really sick. Really sick. So, not only have you guys been rebuilding your marriage at home and working through these conferences and learning all about what you can with EXO and counselors, but then you throw in, okay, God, and sickness and health and weaknesses and everything, literally. Yeah. So take us through your uh your trauma that you've dealt with since you've kind of been this new couple where you're working together and now you got this curveball of illness. Yes. So we when we left the conference, it was February of when? 24. 24. No, wait. Yeah, it was February of 24. We left the conference. They they had shown our video. Um we met you. But rewind a little. A couple of days before I started feeling like I was coming down with something. Yes. And I thought we cannot miss like so I went and got a vitamin I infusion and then we came to the conference and then came back and yeah and so when we left the conference we were I felt like we were I mean we both were on fire. We were like God's doing something crazy in our lives. And we had really been praying about uh marriage ministry and how that would look and what we could do um in the marriage ministry world. And so we we left there and we were like, "This is awesome." Like God is doing crazy stuff. Um and 10 days later, he's on a ventilator fighting for his life. And what happened? He um I mean, you guys are nurses. Yes. Did you think you had it figured out in the beginning? Yeah. I mean, it's flu season, February. Everybody has the flu. Our son had had the flu. Um, and so I just thought it Yeah. I mean, he's like, "I'm running fever. I don't feel good." Um, and so we thought he had the flu and then it just progressively got worse. Um, and we had him go see a doctor and then we ended up in the ER. Um, and it just got to the point where it was like, "This is scary. I mean, it it's bad." Um and so he had pneumonia and he went into septic shock and then went into um kidney failure and all they failure. Yeah. Respiratory failure. And so they um intubated him and shipped him to another facility and he was that's when he got airlifted. Yes. And then um he was on a ventilator for 8 days and in the hospital for 2 weeks. And I just thought 27 meds at one point. I mean, it was crazy. I I really thought this cannot be happening. This is a joke. I mean, I I was sitting there and I thought after everything that we've been through, everything we've, you know, come out on the other side and we're and we're really trying to um further the kingdom, right? We're we're working with you, God. Like, we're working for you and this is this is it. This is what we're doing. I mean, I would you learn, I guess. Yeah. I mean, and and it was almost like at one point I felt like God had said to me, I need people to know this is me. This is all me. This is nothing you've done. Like you can, you know, cuz people can say, "Well, y'all got through that because you forgive forgave him, you know, and um y'all it was on your own accord or your strength or whatever." him getting through that. Um, he shouldn't have survived. Yeah, he shouldn't have survived. Getting through that, that is all God. There's there's zero explanation other than that was because God wanted him here. We went back to the hospital 2 months after and walk in the door to see everybody and they're like, "It's a miracle you're walking." So, did they give you a name of what? So, I had what was going I had flu A. I had staff pneumonia that got into my bloodstream and so I had staff everywhere and then at one point I went into rapid AIB with RVR and had to be cardioverted. Um I had like so all had a chain reaction from Yes. got a set flu and pneumonia. Yeah. And when they got me to the CCU that night, there's 10 people in the room, and she knows every word that's being said of what meds they're giving me and what's going on. And she's thinking, "What is going on?" And when she left, they made her leave that first night and she was walking out the hallway and the nurse came out and grabbed her and was like, "Hey, I think I know the answer to this, but I have to ask you anyways. if your husband's heart stops beating, do you want us to do everything we can to get him back? And a couple hours before that, the ER doctor came up to put a central line in me, and he said told her, "I had a similar situation, same guy, super active, healthy, same age. Um, everything the same. He didn't make it. I'm going to pray for you." And then walked out the room. Yeah. Wow. I mean, I knew it was I knew it was bad. And I know that the nurse, she you have to ask those questions. I've had to ask those questions before. Um it's just shocking on the other side of it. It's usually asking knowing it's going to happen. Yeah. Just going this. This is the Yeah, this is a real possibility. Like we might have to do CPR on your preparing you for your next challenging question. Yes. They had to flip me and leave me face down for 18 hours cuz they couldn't get my oxygen up. There was a lot. That is a mess. I mean, I've you were very sick. Yeah. But now we're I mean, I know we can see that you're got the breathing. Uh your oxygen. I know, but I saw your the the the word I should, but I was going to say, you got this hose up on I call it my nose hose. Your nose hose on your face. Um so it looks like you know you're you're on the mend. Will you ever be back to Andrew that you were? I don't think there's a from the amount of staff that I had in my lungs caused a bunch of damage and scarring and and so I think we're at a point where this is normal. But that's all right. If I shouldn't be here and I'm here, then I'll take it. Cuz that's real weird. When I got out of the hospital, when I got in, I was 220. 12 days later when they wheeled me out in a wheelchair, I couldn't walk. I was 174 lbs. She had to feed me, bathe me, like I couldn't do anything. And then I get home and my kids come home and they're like, "Yeah, they didn't recognize." And the whole time I'm in the hospital Yeah. they And you lost all of that. And medically, they want to say that's the only reason I survived was because I had calories to burn. Well, and yeah, I mean, he was in great shape and so his body was able to fight. Um, and so one of the doctors did tell me as soon as they got him to the other facility, he was like, if he wasn't in the physical shape that he's in, he wouldn't be here. He wouldn't have even made it this far. So, go work out, people. I tell people, you probably should exercise a little. Yeah, it was hard too for our kids cuz they kept my in-laws kept them the whole time and they kept asking them, "Is my dad dead?" Yeah. Was he how do we There were the girls were eight at the time. The boys were 13. Um that's tough y'all going through a tough season. But I heard you talking as you were telling your story that you guys have wanted to get into like marriage ministry with your story. Have you decided to do that or have you still put that on hold? So, we kind of do that just in our community at We have like a marriage Bible study. Yeah, we do a marriage Bible study with a group of friends and we've walked through a couple of the EXO books. Um, and so that's been awesome. Yeah. Um, but yeah, we're still looking at options and I keep telling him he needs to write a book cuz his life is crazy. I mean, I'll help him. People wouldn't believe it. I know. Well, that's that's what got me to where I'm at. I wanted to write an autobiography. I'm like, people need to hear these stories. And I wanted to have um a true story that I could leave my church. Yeah. Yes. Here's a legacy story that you can share and create a small group out of it. But um I think if we would have had something like that years ago, I think it would have really I'm going to give you guys a copy. One, I want y'all to go through it. Yeah. Uh two, it's written for small group. Um so that's why it's 13 chapters. So you can you can create a small make a small group out of it. Um but yeah I mean you know ideally yes of course I want it to be in every LPC's office counselor's office so that they can catch you know help us that are going through it and here's a workbook to do. So I'd be honored for you guys to have a copy of it. Yes. What do you feel like? Okay. So if this sickness and in health, if this sickness and in health that you're going to deal with that you feel like is your life going forward and you got this marriage ministry, what do you guys what do you guys have in planned? What are you going to do with this that you have this life you have now? Because you bounced back from infidelity, you bounced back from u addiction, you've so you've got different things there that you can use this story to to apply to people. Well, I think the big thing I think a lot of people could be able to relate. Yeah. The big thing is the um the great commission, right? Well, I think disciples and um we have to keep talking about it. Yeah, we do. We have to make it a safe conversation um and helping people bring that um addiction or whatever into the light. having a safe space to bring it to um and normalizing us talking about these things because it's been such a taboo subject. Yeah. Especially in the church like nobody wants to talk about it and so people just struggle in um you know in the darkness and in by themselves. Um and so I think doing stuff like this, writing books, um podcasts, those kind of things where we we normalize talking about hard things. Yeah. hard things, struggle, throwing it, throwing it at the church. I mean, you guys can lead a small group doing this. You could you could do a workshop where you tell your story and, you know, say these are the things that I did or these are the things that we do now to work on it. Cuz I need to tell you like I'm I'm I'm not a just cuz I wrote a book on I wrote a book on um addiction, not a book on marriage, right? I'm not here to save every marriage. I I want marriages to be saved, but you know, um I just want to express that I am not a marriage guru, right? But I feel like um marriages that have addiction or some kind of a story that Yes. You know, they need a tool for that. And so that's there's not a lot of tools. There's not. Yep. And so I think you know just telling people telling her story and um and being transparent and so what's life like now? How are you guys getting along? How's how's the house? Crazy. Life is it is. It's chaos. It's good chaos. But it is fun. Yeah. Cuz you guys own a business together, right? You had a gym of a gym. She teaches at the college. I'm I'm supposed to start I guess teaching with them some. Um, and then we go back to Denver next month. Yeah. To figure out what the next step is. And then just kid. What do you expect to hear from Denver? Uh, I don't know. I'm not real sure. We're trying some different treatment options to try to get him to the highest quality, I guess. Yeah. That's and driving up here, she was like, "We need to ask them at what point is a lung transplant the next step?" Yeah. Because like I can get out of breath really quick. Mhm. Like in the shower, get out of the shower. Yeah. Like if I don't have this on, this lingering from all the things you had to deal with, it's just a whole bunch of scarring. Yep. that. Well, what I want to do is um help you guys as much as I can. So, when you get ready to start working with couples, have y'all gone through mediation and got your mediation? No, we were we wereful to come and then I took a helicopter ride. Yeah. And he got planning on that. Have to get get got to get you through. Yeah. God to get you through that. Yeah. And then um definitely I want to give you some copies of the book, but um what would be one thing that you would tell couples that have a story similar to yours and it this this is just happening and they just happen to flip to this podcast and they hear your story and we didn't dig into all of your story, but if you were speaking to the wife of somebody that's going through what you had to go through, what would you tell them right now? I would tell her to feel everything. Go through all the feelings. Um, don't just try to skim over it. Don't put a band on it. Yeah. Don't try to um make yourself busy to forget about it. You have to go through all of those feelings, all of those emotions. Um, and know that it's okay. Mhm. To be mad. Um, and there's going to be times where you feel like you're fine and you're fine for a couple days or weeks and then all of a sudden you're back at it and you're like, I'm back at square one again. And that's okay. You're going to feel I mean, it's just going to be a roller coaster. Yeah. Um, that's good. Yeah, that's real good. Andrew, what would be one thing you would tell the guy that's already had the issue happen but is trying to make his marriage work? My biggest struggle was guilt and shame after it all. Like I know Christ had already forgiven me, but I didn't feel like I had punished myself enough. And for probably 3 years after I just every day just carried guilt and shame like a backpack. And then I heard a sermon one afternoon, I don't remember who it was, talking about if you're struggling with guilt and shame because of something you've done, you're telling Jesus what he did on the cross was not good enough for this. So, and then I thought, okay, yeah, it was probably enough. So, I'm going to let it go. That is good. So, that's this is good information for you guys to pass on. So, I'm going to encourage you to keep talking to married couples. If there's a married couple that's listening to this episode and they want to reach out to you guys, is it okay for them to reach out to you? Absolutely. Okay. So, we'll tag you. Okay. Um on all the stuff that we put up. Okay. Perfect. Well, I just want to say thank you both for making the 4hour trip here in Texas. That's not far away. Oh, everything in Texas is That wasn't bad. It wasn't bad. No. Houston, we might have been like, "All right, we'll go." But it's a trip. But well, I hope you can figure out something to do while you're here. Um, and make, you know, a day date out of it or something. But really and truly, thank you guys for coming around hours to get here to hang out with me. I really and truly appreciate it. We appreciate you having us. Yeah. Thank you'all for sharing your story with me. Thank you.